crime is a spook
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[–] [S] 14 points 5 months ago (74 children)

Or dissolve the government and realise offloading societal obligations to use violence to a hierarchical organisation is not the solution.

If there must be violence, let it come from the people for the people.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (44 children)

    Government is like money. Get rid of it and people will create it again to fill the function they need it to fill, so let's have it do what we need and help instead of harm

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    There is still a point, though, when a government gets so bad that you just have to throw it away even if you know a new one would eventually rise to replace it.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Yup. People are social animals, and governments are just formalized outgrowths of the social structures they form. Fun bit, the research they've done shows that not just people but all primates fall back into all of the same social structures they are used to whenever there is a vacancy.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (28 children)

    Vigilantism is not a suitable replacement. The general population is shit at properly investigating things.

    Just look at how Reddit responded to who they incorrectly thought was the Boston Marathon bomber. A lot of innocent people will die to mob justice.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (9 children)

    Community defences is a suitable replacement.

    I can point to millions of examples of cops and courts getting it wrong and innocent people suffering and dying, yet that’s not an argument against the system for you so why should it be against community management?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    As there are millions of examples of them finding culprits and getting it right. I may not agree with the punishments, but I think your argument breaks down outside of a very small close knit community of people who practice consensus decision making.

    You can't just plop down community management without the culture to make it work. These tools are missing from most communities and would lead to as many negative results if not more.

    We don't even need to create hypothetical examples of this because we already have many historical examples of community management gone wrong like the Salem Witch trials.

    I think you need to seriously address this before you can shout community management as a panacea.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    You can’t just plop down community management without the culture to make it work. These tools are missing from most communities and would lead to as many negative results if not more.

    Well of course. Nothing will work right away if people aren't educated and empowered. But the tools are missing precisely because we have given them to the state. Thus to see this change, they must be returned to the community who can relearn to practice them.

    We also have examples of community management going right, such as in Rojava or Chiaps where the people are the ones patrolling their streets, deciding on how to right wrongs collectively, and generally showing much better results than we have in the West.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    Herein lies the problem, without community management taking over naturally it would be thrust artificially onto communities. You can't reasonably expect these skills to be learned naturally, this would require external education which would then require a lot of social capital to be successful.

    Who is going to dismantle the state and remember that it has to be a slow gradual learning process for communities?

    Also, community management almost has to take place in a vacuum because when it bumps up against a state it quickly dissolves losing its power such as what happened in Rojava in the start of 2026 leading it to being incorporated into the Syrian state.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (17 children)

    and innocent people die at the hands of police. i'm willing to take my chances with my neighbors.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (16 children)

    I can guarantee you that mob justice would be worse.

    It used to be commonplace for innocent black people to be hung because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and a bunch of pissed off white people wanted to kill someone.

    The state making that a crime and enforcing it is what stopped it from being commonplace.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (15 children)

    I can guarantee you that mob justice would be worse.

    i don't see how. do you have a crystal ball?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    No crystal ball, but history repeats itself. That shit isn't even in the distant past.

    Do you honestly think that groups of people with no experience in criminal investigations will get it right more often than people who dedicated their lives to it?

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    i think that the systems that govern us are unjust in a myriad of ways. i'm willing to tolerate some level of injustice in dealing with antisocial behavior, since i get that already, if it means we can throw off all the rest of the oppression we face from being governed.

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