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[–] 217 points 6 months ago* (135 children)

Also you guys are fucking idiots.

“If you don’t pick a better candidate then I’ll just let the one who wants concentration camps and to erase all of Palestine win”

Like, seriously, look at the big picture. Do you think Kamala who would have still supported Israel would have been worse for Gaza? It’s literally not possible. You guys fucked up the entire planet in your pride.

Now I’m not saying the DNC isn’t wrong, they’re fucking morons. But you guys just gave up on global warming, gay rights, trans rights, Gaza, any sembles of the environment, public health, the entire “justice” system, the courts, your immigrant neighbours, all people of colour in the US, and women’s rights.

I cannot express how much I fucking hate people like you right now.

Go ahead and downvote me. “But it’s not right”. Yeah? We’ll choosing to let this happen is leagues worse. You guaranteed the genecide in Gaza would be the worst it ever could be you fucking morons.

Go out and pressure the DNC to not be shit, but don’t fucking say there’s no difference between Kamala and Trump.

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  • [+] 104 points 6 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (16 children)
  • [–] 46 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Agreed. But I'm not going to publicly endorse a dead-end DNC loser before it's necessary. The DNC needs to act like people aren't required to vote for them and field a candidate that can actually win votes.

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  • [–] 30 points 6 months ago

    That's valid! More than valid it's necessary. Show resistance against weak DNC libs AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, but possible ends when it's time to vote. Then always choose the option that is best or, if necessary least damaging.

    If you don't vote against the biggest fascist, you are helping fascism along.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    On the other hand, this is a fine time for this conversation. We do have roughly a year to find a candidate that's not fucking Newsom just because he could meme for a minute.

    I don't mind a few memes in our politics, but I do want there to be some kind of substance under the memes. And not the substance Magats have found under theirs, 💩.

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  • [+] 59 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 51 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Yes! Primaries primaries primaries.

    Go and primary every single DNC candidate that isn't good enough, get better democratic candidates wherever you can. Put even more energy into primaries than into the election itself! But when the decision comes down to Churchill or Hitler, you better vote for fucking Churchill.

    Everything else is just throwing the minorities and the future under the bus as a cost of doing business.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    https://sourcenews.scot/analysis-5-of-the-worst-crimes-of-winston-churchill/

    Churchill is probably viewed as worse than Hitler in parts of the world for good reason.

    I think a lot of the argument against voting for lesser evil is the acceleration aspect. It's advocating for a quicker fall of the American empire

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Accelerationism is a great idea.

    I don't care how many people die now, because it will bring a glorious time in the future.

    Accelerationism is Christianity with Lenin replacing Jesus

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    Except the Armageddon is real but no-one will rise up to save us when every major city is nothing but glowing embers under an ever gray nuclear sky while the remnants of humanity fight each other with sticks over the last grain silos.

    So-called American "revolutionaries" make me sick with their reckless disregard for the unavoidable responsibility their country has with regards to their military. An "accelerated downfall" won't just affect you bozos. Especially not if the means are "stoking the fire of imperialism".

    If I could press a button to accelerate the US downfall and magically contain the fighting to the lower 48 in a way that leaves whoever is left standing nuke-less, I would, but that's not an option on the table, so barring that, please vote against the guy who really can't be trusted with the nuclear briefcase, yeah???

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Accelerationism is acceptable to people who think they have little to fear from a (hopefully) short spike in terrible things, because they might come out of the other side worse for wear, but they will make it through.

    But for everybody who's part of a vulnerable group it's throwing them to the wolves, because likely, they will not come out of the other side.

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  • [–] 34 points 6 months ago (29 children)

    Wanna know how to pressure the DNC to pick a candidate you like? Go fucking vote for them in the primary!

    Typically, the primaries get 1/10th the turnout of the general election. That means that a very small number of people can sway the primary. Go stump for your candidate. Make phone calls, talk to your family and friends and community, explain why your candidate is the better choice.

    The lack of a primary in 2024 was fucking awful, but guess what? Chances are, there is a primary going on for your state right now, get to work!

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  • [–] 27 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Yeah...

    To the people "wanting to teach the DNC a lesson", in the nicest way possible, you're fucking idiots.

    They threw literally ever other minority group under the bus, and got absolutely nothing for it - if anything they actually got less than nothing, because Trump wasn't just going soft on Israel, he was actively cheering them on!

    I will never understand the mentality of choosing that hill to die on... Like couldn't you guys have waited until Trump was at least off the board first.

    Man was literally on his way to a lifetime in jail and bankruptcy, that he got out of scot-free because you guys decided 2024 was the time for a protest vote.

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  • [–] 22 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    This continues to be the stupidest, least productive way to think about elections. The lesser of two evils argument may be true, but it failed to motivate people to vote for Kamala in 2024 (or Hillary in 2016, for that matter). You can bitch about protest votes or an apathetic electorate all you want, but at the end of the day, you don't win elections if you don't get votes, and, "yEaH, bUt TrUmP iS wOrSe," didn't get votes. If the Democrats once again run a candidate who doesn't reflect their base and once again lose the election, it will once again be their fault for repeating a losing strategy that produces losing candidates.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    But you can bet when they lose they'll blame everyone else in the room but themselves. I don't think the neo-liberals of the party realize how much bad blood they've been generating.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago

    It's getting hard to tell if they even want to win. Even a year ago it might be plausible to argue that centrism is a smart strategy, but at this point, with victories like Mamdani and Mejia, it's just demonstrably wrong. Hell, Platner is still leading Mills in Maine even after the whole, "having a Nazi tattoo," thing. If the Democrats are still pursuing centrism going into 2028, then they have to admit they would prefer losing to fascists than adding progressives to their tent.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    They know, thats why every discussion revolving politics to the left of the republicans devolves into "what the fuck you gonna do, vote republican?"

    Abuser mentality. Hostage politics. No democracy to be had here. All this could be ended in every blue state controlled by the democrats by passing electoral reform. By replacing First-past-the-post voting and doing away with the spoiler effect that keeps 3rd parties from having equal access to our elections.

    But the democrats are uninterested in democracy. They want safe states and elections versus evil cartoon characters. And they will have them, no matter the cost to the United States of America.

    Its much harder to campaign against a group of people who all have much more then just a concept of a plan. Capitalists hate competition.

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  • [–] [S] 19 points 6 months ago* (8 children)

    I'm a leftist who absolutely voted Harris, because the other option was horrific. I was not in love with Kamala but I did feel that she was a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better option. But I will not lie, I know several people who were basically exactly like the people you are talking about. It's disheartening.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I think the main issue is that some people don't have any sense of prioritization.

    They're the people who complain when they're in the ER for a cold and a person with a gunshot wound gets to go ahead of them.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago* (10 children)

    I think the argument is that voting for status quo candidates aren't actually getting us those things, either. And any small incremental gains are quickly reverted the next time republicans are in power.

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  • [–] 19 points 6 months ago* (6 children)

    I think the argument is that voting for status quo candidates aren't actually getting us those things, either. And any small incremental gains are quickly reverted the next time republicans are in power.

    And you can only believe that if you ignore every bit of progress that has stuck around in the last thirty years.

    Progress isn’t a straight line up. Like anything else it dips and wobbles. But it consistently moves upward.

    Yeah there are always going to be things to make progress on. But to pretend that we are not in a better place on some of those issues now than we were thirty years ago is bafflingly silly.

    As an example: In 1996, support for same-sex marriage was so low that congress passed and Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act, allowing states to ignore same-sex marriage licenses from other states in direct violation of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution, and this was widely supported by the American people. In 2023, over 70% of Americans supported gay marriage while only 22% opposed. That number has dipped since, but not by much. In 2025, it was 68% support (88% of Democrats, 76% of Independents, and 41% of Republicans) while 29% opposed it.

    That is an issue on which the American people have made significant progress. That progress hasn’t evaporated with alternating administrations. It ebbs and flows like literally everything, but over time it has improved.

    Most are like this. Not all! Certainly some things consistently get worse, like wealth inequality. But to act like everything simply flip-flops between parties and that the Democrats are simply a ratchet that maintains the status quo and doesn’t let anything change just to let the next Republican make it worse is flat-out wrong.

    Are Democrats largely spineless corporate shills? Yeah. But are they just as bad as Republicans? Fuck no. Go vote in primaries. Support candidates who will actually push for change. Giving up is pathetic.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    I'm not sure if I completely follow.

    Bill Clinton passed a law defining marriage between a man and a woman. And you are saying this is an example of progress made by a centrist candidate. Isn't this the law doing the opposite, here?

    And you are saying that Gavin Newsom, who has spoken out against trans rights, can do something similar? Like assuming he does the same thing, like pass a "Defense of gender" bill to allow other states to not recognize gender transitions.

    Are you saying he will bring progress this way?

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    What do you say to the people of WV who voted for Bernie in the 2016 Democrat primary, won him every single county, and 40k more votes than the runner up, but Clinton won the state? Should they give up, or comitt voter fraud and vote 110%?

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago

    And I do agree with that. 

    I’m not American and we have the same issues here. 

    But the answer has to be putting in grassroots support and fighting the power where you can. By the time Biden and then Harris had secured the DNC nomination it was way too late. 

    I think right now the world at large needs big changes, and corporate power needs to be reigned in. But you have to engage with the possibilities in front of you, even though they suck. You can and should try to create new ones, but it’s a fight, and you have to treat it like one. 

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