107

Apologies in advance for further inundating everybody's headspace with celebrity slop, but I wanted to blab about this:

I generally have no faith in public personalities to hold any convictions at all, so it has been refreshing for Hasan to adhere to his position against voting for Gruesome Newscum. I don't at all mean to imply that he's perfect, or that people should look to him as a leader in any respect, it's just nice to see something like that happening and getting broad exposure. Feels good.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I thought I had deleted it quickly enough because I realized how tedious it would be to argue about this.

(who would otherwise reject him if he advocated for nonparticipation in bourgeois elections)

This was not Lenin's position, and it's the same bullshit false dichotomy I've seen him bring up before (Marxist icon Contra also did this). Lenin very explicitly argued against the main socialist faction that held this position (the Otzovists), maintaining that the vanguard must do both legal and illegal work, with running as a distinct communist party being an element of the legal work.

I would also say that he is torturing ML thought, but the problem is that there is no building a socialist movement on false pretenses, and I have repeatedly seen the contempt with which he treats people representing the actual revolutionary nature of Marxism. You can see in his chat in any such instance that he has trained his community very well to go "based" "chad" at whatever image of select revolutionaries but to reject the substance of their thought and call people with a basic understanding "ultras."

You cannot accept Lenin's theoretical contributions until you have accepted that Lenin is someone worth listening to.

Using quote-mining to misrepresent Lenin while sneering at his actual positions is not the way to accomplish this. There are many things that you can do, of which probably the easiest pitch is to simply explain in plain English some of theoretical basis of Marxist political philosophy, which I know sounds scary because I used big words at the same time as talking about popular communication, but you can explain to any functionally-illiterate high school dropout what (for example) class antagonism is and why it is irreconcilable, I'm just counting on not needing to use small words in order to mention it to you in order to demonstrate this point. Nonetheless, I will if you need me to.

Disillusionment is an incredibly valuable thing, and he should be exploiting it by deepening the disillusionment rather than being slightly to the left of the other berniecrats while continuing to punch left.

[-] ProletarianDictator@hexbear.net 6 points 3 days ago

This was not Lenin's position, and it's the same bullshit false dichotomy I've seen him bring up before

Not claiming this, just voicing what I think Hasan is trying to do. Obviously, Hasan is not well read on Lenin.

but the problem is that there is no building a socialist movement on false pretenses

Right, but is Hasan actually involved with building any sort of socialist movement? No serious Marxist claims him as a thought leader, nor is he trying to lead a vanguard party. He's essentially talking out his ass while trying to kill off common brainworms about Marxism that didn't exist in earlier revolutionaries' times.

and I have repeatedly seen the contempt with which he treats people representing the actual revolutionary nature of Marxism. You can see in his chat in any such instance that he has trained his community very well to go "based" "chad" at whatever image of select revolutionaries but to reject the substance of their thought and call people with a basic understanding "ultras."

He's conditioning people's first reaction upon seeing references to Marxist leaders to be "hell yeah!" Unsure if that was supposed to be an example of contempt, but I wouldn't call it that, maybe disregard or ignorance. I would not characterize him as training people to reject the substance of Marxist thought, given he tells people to read theory all the time (despite not having done so himself)

Using quote-mining to misrepresent Lenin while sneering at his actual positions is not the way to accomplish this.

My point is that even empty, positive references to Lenin, AES countries, etc. are net beneficial because his value does not come from education, it comes from debunking obvious slander and destigmatizing Marxist words, countries, leaders.

There are many things that you can do, of which probably the easiest pitch is to simply explain in plain English some of theoretical basis of Marxist political philosophy,

Trust me, you and I both wish he would present actual theory on stream. Despite my defense of him, I do not think his streams are good place to go for serious political education, but that is very much not his audience. His audience wants to casually consume the news with leftish commentary and humor.

I think this is where our fundamental disagreement comes from. You are looking for him to be more serious, but that is not what his audience is there for. Hasan's streams are entertainment, and he is closer to Bill Burr or Dan Carlin than even the Citations Needed guys, let alone any real leader. As far as entertainment goes, I cannot find any contemporary figure that has a more positive impact given how much he has done to destigmatize AES and Marxism.

You seem to evaluate him as if he intends to be as serious as you want him to be, which I think lends itself to seeing him in an uncharitable light. His job is to make the masses more receptive to us. Our job is to educate. His popularity is doing us a huge favor.

Nonetheless, I will if you need me to.

Is this a jab at me? No need to insult me because I don't think a twitch streamer is the heir apparent to Lenin.

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 1 points 2 days ago

Not claiming this, just voicing what I think Hasan is trying to do. Obviously, Hasan is not well read on Lenin.

Then my point stands.

Right, but is Hasan actually involved with building any sort of socialist movement?

Your whole premise is that he is part of a large, informal movement aimed at that purpose, that's what a "pipeline" is. I'm not saying he's the head of a caucus, obviously.

He's conditioning people's first reaction upon seeing references to Marxist leaders to be "hell yeah!" . . .

The cheerleading isn't helpful if he's using Lenin's corpse as a mask for attacking Lenin's thought. For the rest of this section, I think you just misread me.

Trust me, you and I both wish he would present actual theory on stream

Aside from the fact that he literally does read directly from leftist texts to quote-mine Lenin (specifically he has repeatedly done this with Left Wing Communism), there are times where he does explain points of political theory and when he does so correctly (an easy example, he frequently re-explains the difference between private and personal property), and that is a good thing that he could stand to do a bit more often, but that's not my main concern here, my concern here is the presence of misrepresentations.

I think this is where our fundamental disagreement comes from. You are looking for him to be more serious, but that is not what his audience is there for. Hasan's streams are entertainment, and he is closer to Bill Burr or Dan Carlin than even the Citations Needed guys, let alone any real leader.

I think being a clown is fine. If I hated him being a clown, I wouldn't listen to him for hours because that is most of what his act is (something something jestermaxxing). I think he does a great job (usually) of mocking various reactionaries who make up almost the entire mainstream political spectrum, and honestly I think he actually sometimes does a better job than you give him credit for in terms of actual education or at least closer analysis on certain subjects, whether it's carefully examining footage of the various ICE shootings or picking interesting documentaries and video essays to play on stream for his chair to react to.

His job is to make the masses more receptive to us.

And my point, which was in the part you misread (I'm not really sure what the misreading was, which is why I'm just referring to it generally) is that parts of the project that he is agitating for (his "not entryism"), the attitude that he has dedicatedly cultivated in his community toward actual MLs, and, by your own admission, the liberalism that he sometimes presents (his tailism), are a detriment to people being more receptive to us.

Is this a jab at me? No need to insult me

No, it was a serious offer.

this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2026
107 points (100.0% liked)

Chapotraphouse

14273 readers
605 users here now

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Slop posts go in c/slop. Don't post low-hanging fruit here.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS