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ICE is as American as Apple Pie
(thelemmy.club)
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this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2026
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I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE.
Ah yeah, you’re right. Let’s back the faschists together! 🩷
We're in .ml it's a Russian psyop
Cringe
Any evidence?
I think they're just hoping because if y'all do it for free it gets a little sad.
I pay dues to the org I work with, I don't think it's sad at all to want the working classes to finally be liberated, and work towards that goal.
Nah, in this thread no less that 4 users on ML basically said wipe America out, despite millions protesting, despite the systemic issues like vote suppression and first pass the post that allowed them to win you put all of the sins on the general public which is problematic at best.
I'm not saying that America is good, under its current leadership it is absolutely a destabilizing force in the world. But to pass those sins onto the general public is troublesome.
I want you to imagine if people said the same thing about Russia or China or Israel. Do you understand how many innocent people would die for the actions of their government? There would be no nation left because no nation is without guilt.
People don't want literal genocide on Statesians. What people want is the end of the US Empire, including the state, ideally via socialist revolution. I also want the end of Israel as a state, and I want Russia to have a socialist revolution. It's important to read into what people are actually meaning by their words, and not take it to mean that they want to kill you personally, unless you're fighting to uphold imperialism.
I myself am a Statesian, and have no intention on dying.
That's a charitable take but when people say they support Donald Trump because he "threatens US hegemony" while not acknowledging:
It makes it ring very hollow. Because if your goal was to replace it with technofuedalism we're on track.
Things generally get worse with every election, especially when Republicans win, but just because ICE didn't boast about its terror under Democrats it doesn't mean people weren't kidnapped, even children. ICE funding increased constantly even under Democrats.
Economic sanctions imposed by the US kill over half a million a year. Do our deaths count less because we're abroad? Your government has been terrorizing the global south ever since it was capable of it. I know people who lost relatives under the last US backed dictatorship in Argentina. My grandparents lost several friends, disappeared, taken away.
We don't have the patience to treat all of you with silk gloves. But no, the vast majority of us don't desire your civilian population to be terrorized, we don't want more war, we want you out of our countries so we can organize and develop and be sovereign. And believe it or not, terrorizing us is and has always been bipartisan.
I understand that FPTP forces them into a lesser evil dichotomy that makes progress incremental and back sliding torrential. A flaw that's also getting exploited in Canada.
I'm no fan of their foreign policy either and it seems for the post part we agree then. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
All good, hope you have a good weekend
People don't support Trump "because he threatens US Hegemony." Celebrating the decline in hegemony is not the same as supporting Trump or the damage the empire deals.
Means to an end, got it. So be it, If things end up as bad as you seem to predict I hope you can rebuild something from the smoldering ashes. I'll still try my hand at organized resistance.
No? I do org work IRL for the purpose of establishing socialism. Being happy that the empire is losing its iron grip on the world doesn't mean I try to make things worse to do so.
It's like you're intentionally taking the most bad-faith reading possible.
You're right I conflated your opinions with those I have argued with the past on ML and for that I apologize.
However, If you think this ends when America dies that's wishful thinking, the oligarchy is as comfortable in Russia, India or Brazil as it is in America and they seem to be shifting as they see the writing on the wall.
None of those 3 countries have the finance capital required to replace the US Empire. What makes the US Empire unique is its total hegemony. Europe comes close financially, but doesn't have the hard power to keep that going when the US Empire falls.
That wouldn't be true for long when they migrate their capital as we've seen already happening with recent market ripples.
How so? Finance capital doesn't shift that quickly, nor does industrial capacity.
I think it could, look how rapidly China industrialized, how rapidly India industrialized, when given a centralized power structure and lack of regulations It's been shown to be possible. Now it wouldn't happen overnight which is why I believe it's already underway and why they're investing so heavily in destabilizing Germany, The UK and India.
I believe by migrating their capital to European defense contractors and advancing far right policy they are readying an escape hatch
India is lagging far behind China, the reason China developed so rapidly is due to their socialist market economy. By having strong central planning, and public ownership of the large firms and key industries, while allowing limited private and foreign capital for secondary and small/medium industries. As a consequence of this structure, it is neither imperialist nor driven to imperialism. These other countries you speak of cannot replicate China's success without adopting socialism anyways, which prevents the drive to imperialism.
So, if I understand you correctly you're asserting that the dissolution of the American power structure would disallow oligarchy for asserting centralized control and would force them to have a much smaller sphere of influence as is seen with Russian and The Saudi Arabian Oligarchs?
The "oligarchy" in the US already has control. The dissolution of the current, capitalist system would result in either socialism if we succeed or barbarism if we fail, and said barbarism would be far more localized. Russia dissolved a socialist system, not an oligarchic one of capitalism, and Saudi Arabia is a monarchy.
I was using the broad term oligarch to mean someone who has " great capital and political control who is not part of the electorate". It's okay though, I still gather what you mean.
I still think you underestimate the blood price if things have to be done that way but it sounds like we agree on most things just not how easy it is to rip out the parasite that is capitalism.
That's generally been my point, I think you actually agree with most people here, but have been reading them less charitably.
It was too long ago for me to pull up the specific comment but I have had people on ML showing me Al Jazeera articles trying to convince me that DT is good for the Gaza strip and that he was a better vote than Kamala so for now I'll evaluate on a case by case basis.
The majority opinion seems to be that neither would stop the genocide, both would carry it out.
Agreed, Israel has too much control and is too interwoven with US foreign influence for either to stop it. Maybe if Mamdani ever made it to the big chair but we both know that will never happen as long as the DNC exists as it currently does.
Israel is not controlling the US, the US controls Israel. Israel has some counter-influence, but the US uses Israel to secure its interests in the region. Stopping it requires hitting imperialist profits directly.
I would have said yes in 2016 but since 2022 Netanyahu seems to exert considerable influence even when the electorate try to slow them down for fear of backlash. Now Israel does advance US foreign policy but I don't think Netanyahu is so tight on that leash, I believe he's doing it for the love of the game, so to speak.
You’re both right because there is no We in America.
That is the problem we must solve.
Perhaps there should be no "america" at all. Seems like that option would save the world from a lot of death, and destruction and economic rape.
It depends on if you are talking about the entity or the people in the entity.
If the former, I do not disagree. There need not be states at all in fact, as a matter of preference.
If you are talking about the people, well, it sounds like you are talking about more death and destruction so no thanks.
Strongest Reader in America Award 🏅
Why don't you re-read my comment and see if I said "America" or, "Americans".
Take your time, I'll wait.
That is very kind of you. I am a strong reader; in fact I’m not too humble to mention that I was the recipient of multiple Pizza Hut Personal Pan Pizzas in my youth, as recognition for my excellent reading skills, and so it is touching for you to recognize it.
My fellow strong readers will be well aware that there are multiple ways for a country to cease existing. Some peaceful, and some violent.
As thoroughly insightful, erudite, and compellingly written as that gem of a comment was, it did not specify. And given your server, it seemed prudent to seek specifics.
Thank you for the helpful response.
"Communists want to kill all americans"
You got it buddy, I'm against human death and destruction, EXCEPT for americans somehow. Because they aren't people? Or something?
Yeah that would be a weird contingency, especially because it was never stated or suggested. This strawman, conceived entirely of your preconceived notions, that you started arguing against, would indeed be illogical. Great shit sherlock.
So keep your medallion, you've earned it. And I'm glad we wasted all this time appealing to your nonsensical and delicate sensibilities. Your superior mind is exactly why commies want to kill you. You're just too motherfuckin smart.
I have only been trying to clarify your view and there is no strawman so if you see that as somehow hostile or adversarial then that is very much a problem you will carry with you after I’ve forgotten this exchange.
Peace to you.
Seriously, re-read the conversation and tell me who got tripped up. And where. I have remained clear and consistent this whole time.
You got caught up on something that nobody ever stated because you made a weird assumption in your mind.
If you can't see this, then that is genuinely just sad. You are earning that strongest american reader award in triplicate.
And no peace to you. Your "peace" is a prison for you to walk around as an ignorant fool. I hope this uncomfortable exchange wakes you the fuck up.