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this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2026
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Chapotraphouse
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at some point i don't think it's entryism so much as taking up space. If the squad ditched the party and ran as independents they would be taking on an uphill battle against democrats' entrenchment to be in a more morally pure position with the same or less power.
Bernie had an I next to his name for years and look at him. There's a low ceiling on electoralism and i don't think leaving the party makes a difference one way or the other. Is attempting to normalize third parties worth losing congressional seats? Depends how valuable a congressional seat is and whether you're vulnerable to redistricting or primarying anyway.
i think normalizing third parties should be the primary short-term goal of electoralism. there just isn't anything else for "left-wing" electoralism to do when the first party is designed around sabotaging, co-opting, and destroying left-wing movements.
that's reasonable for a movement, but is it the interest of a sitting congresswoman? (and that consideration is another limitation of electoralism) It makes sense for Sawant, but i think all the democrats ran as democrats with the objective of being democrats rather than entryism per se.
you're right for now but i think it's a delicate balance. if any "left" democrat does something cool, they might all start getting pushed out of the party, depending on what the donors think. but i guess the dnc itself is too smart to do that sort of thing all at once. idk maybe this whole train of thought is a dead end.
you have Bush and Bowman who got pushed out recently. I think if the leftmost 5% of democrats wanted to do a new party they should've done it during the biden midterms with Bernie before he showed his ass.
maybe now radlibs could be forming an "abolish ice" party. Better to build up PSL but like ram the manparts said none of these people are socialists.
so maybe it's not a complete dead end? maybe 1-2% the democratic party splits?
if Walz and Klob were better i could see DFL asserting itself more as a separate entity from the democratic party.
the problem with radlibs doing anything like that is that your 1-2% is all over the country and libs think almost exclusively in terms of national elections. if it was going to happen we'd see a state with zero republican viability and some upstart party challenging democrats from the left.
i have to wonder if most of the states with no republican viability are too professional-managerial to support a strong left wing. the only one i can think of is massachusetts and they're so well-off it's hard to imagine them voting for anyone left of reagan. not to sound defeatist but i suppose electoralism is already not a great avenue for left-wing stuff anyway.
I love watching this conversation during hitlers rise to power its very funny, talk about the parlimentarian next!
well so long as you're gonna vote, you ought to vote third-party. so long as you're gonna run, you ought to run third-party. otherwise you're not doing anything electorally to stop hitler's rise to power. and in that case, why not just stay home on erection day and masturbate?
you cannot electorally stop Hitlers rise to power what are you talking about?
Unless you are roundabout calling destroying liberal capitalist democracy and therefore stopping it from letting hitler seize power 'stopping hitler electorally'
all i'm saying is if the left wants an electoral strategy, this is it. i'm not saying we should have an electoral strategy. i'm just saying if you're gonna vote anyway, vote third party
Well under Democracy with American Characteristics, political parties are private corporations. Participation in the presidential debates is also run by a private corporation, who declared early on
The heads of the CPD are usually ex-leaders of the two corporations that make up the Democratic and Republican parties, and when those corporations want to bypass the CPD, they just negotiate with different corporations.
Hold up I just got a text from said Democracy (the will of the people)
Oh, so nothing changed.
Yes. Absolutely.
It's not going to happen though, because none of these people are socialists.
it's not even socialist as such, they just don't have strong moral convictions. some liberals are also horrified at entity behavior, some (best) of them even quit their jobs over it (say in state department) around 10 people in 12000 department or some numbers around that, it's basically consistent number that people with morals are less than 1% of people (i would like to say it's uniquely seppos, but same is true in europe and middle east and asia), we have several representative samples across populations when push comes to shove they all vote/continue to work for/shop at/entertain for better burgers. which means socialist should brings morals by backdoor of treats, which would require extraordinary individual/organizational duality.
As i said, power hungry poops, the power comes first and above all, and thus indicates the person is cooptable and not a threat, in a larger sense. Your either immediately quit or become pelocia, or willing to be such a nuisance to be 1term representative, or you get starry eyed about proximity to power as to take pictures with genocide joe. You don’t have any power, but you think you do, and do this work for 30 years