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Democracy vs Dictatorship (hexbear.net)

submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by thelastaxolotl@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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[-] miz@hexbear.net 56 points 3 weeks ago

The Tian’anmen Square ‘Massacre’: The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie. | Mango Press

not that I think you'll read it or even click on it, it's for other people who read this thread

[+] unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth -9 points 3 weeks ago

I actually did click on it and start reading it, because this has been the most decent response in the thread so far (despite the condescension - the bar is pretty low, to be fair). The loaded language was already quite something. And I tried to find more information on the source. Well, the website doesn't exist anymore and I'm hard pressed to find any reliable information about it. So... Maybe not the most reliable source.

[-] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 46 points 3 weeks ago

Buddy, you don't get to say things like "despite the condescension" when you came in here suggesting that we should take a fantasy you made up in your head seriously as if that was a matter of historical record.

And it's not like you deserve it, but here's an essay from a Chinese scholar and a Canadian-Peruvian Marxist synthesizing together a few dozen first hand accounts and historical documents/articles about the event.

[-] miz@hexbear.net 40 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

loaded language

bourgeois media is filled with loaded language but it doesn't register to you because of your chauvinism

[-] Kumikommunism@hexbear.net 39 points 3 weeks ago

And what was the reliable source where you got your current belief?

That was not the most decent answer, and you are a liar. Someone asked you why you believed he was killed, and you ignored it. Because you know the answer isn't a good one.

[-] miz@hexbear.net 35 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

this piece in the Columbia Journalism Review by a western journalist who was there still has some of the liberal brainworms but solidly shows that the conventional narrative is bullshit:

The Myth of Tiananmen | Columbia Journalism Review

The problem is this: as far as can be determined from the available evidence, no one died that night in Tiananmen Square.

I look forward to hearing how a primary witness writing in CJR is unreliable

[-] unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth -1 points 3 weeks ago

Most of the hundreds of foreign journalists that night, including me, were in other parts of the city or were removed from the square so that they could not witness the final chapter of the student story.

Right, all the media was ushered out so that they couldn't see the peaceful ending. Seems legit. But OK, let's assume it's the case. Whatever.

Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances. [...] Many victims were shot by soldiers on stretches of Changan Jie, the Avenue of Eternal Peace, about a mile west of the square, and in scattered confrontations in other parts of the city

What are workers and passersby? Right, civilians.

[-] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 25 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I'm struggling to see what revelation you've identified here that is so scandalous. Yes, the Chinese government killed several hundred Chinese civilians surrounding the Tiananmen Square in the 1989 protests. Has anyone claimed otherwise?

Your original claim was that the man pictured in the OP in front of the tanks was executed. That claims remains as baseless as China overseas.

[-] MayoPete@hexbear.net 15 points 3 weeks ago

Siri, how many American civilians are killed by cops each year?

[-] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 17 points 3 weeks ago

It's fine to hold China, an actual democratic state, to a higher standard than the US. If anything it makes China look bad that you're comparing them to the great satan.

[-] MayoPete@hexbear.net 18 points 3 weeks ago

I just think it's ridiculous that China-haters have to go back 30+ years to find one instance of the government doing something awful and in 🍔land we have little Tiannamen Squares on a daily basis.