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"I'm going to pass market reforms..."
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this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2025
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Yes.
If you asked me to choose between the USSR under Khruschev and the US, I'll choose Khruschev. If you ask me to choose between the PRC under Deng and the US, I'll choose Deng. That's not so much an endorsement of every single thing they did or believed as it is about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to ideological disagreements or imperfect implementations.
Also, the same idea can be good under certain circumstances and bad in others. That's the whole point. Marxism isn't about a certain set of policies, it's a materialist, class based method of analysis, specific policies should be developed based around specific circumstances.
The only problem is that it is not that simple. Communists support neither the revisionists nor imperialists (including social-imperialists), but the people. For instance, in China there exists a Maoist Communist Party. There is also a Maoist party in Russia.
Yeah, and there's also a Trotskyist party in China (Hong Kong). So what?
What it comes down to, for me at least, is that I don't really have any influence over what happens in China, except through my government fucking with them. And I don't want my government to fuck with them. So you can verbally "support" whatever group with whatever line you like but I don't see how that's really going to have any material impact on anything, unless you live there. I suppose there are other forms of mutual cooperation, but it's not as though I'm mailing envelopes of cash to the Chinese embassy, and if they ever decided to start sending me envelopes of cash, you know, baller.
To put it another way, for all intents and purposes, I support China. Any policy question that's "Should we (meaning my, the US, government) mess with China?" is going to be answered in the negative. If you would also answer that question in the negative, then we're on the same page, mostly just disgreeing on phrasing. If, on the other hand, you're potentially willing to support the US government against China, then that's a bit of an issue, and a position that you would need to actually defend.
Otherwise, can you give a practical, realistic example of how my support for China and your opposition to China manifest in tangible differences?
I think this is the best, most practical answer.
Always ask what the point of a speech-act is, how it's going to influence the world in a given historical context. And the context here is speaking to mostly people outside China, while a global imperialist coalition actively prepares war against China. It's absolutely clear, that the primary task of leftists in the imperial core is to work against these war preparations. I wish this side had more comrades who are actually from China to weigh in on such questions.
It all comes down to the question "Will you still stand for peace, if the US goes to war with China?" We'll have to stand against the empire, even if they force China to act first by attempting to station nuclear weapons on Taiwan. Because I totally see some people falling for this old trick and switching sides if this happens. Like: "I thought China wants peace, but now they're evil for having started it instead of just letting a mortal enemy build up deadly weapons of mass destruction on their doorstep."
So you think Maoists are comparable to Trotskyites?
Are you just contractually bound to only respond to one facet of what a person says at a time?
Those groups in China seem comparable in size and power, and I think that's the point
That's what you got from that?
Putting aside that you're completely ignoring my actual point and that this is a completely irrelevant tangent, yes, actually, I do. Both groups tend to denounce any revolution that's actually successful because it doesn't match the ideal in their head. Both have a similar concept of "permanent revolution." Really the major difference I see between them is attitude and branding. At the end of the day, both ideologies are about placing unrealistic demands on existing socialist projects and then denouncing them when they don't live up to them, one of them just hates Stalin more.
Yes