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submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Image is of the damage caused by an Iranian Kheibar Shekan ballistic missile in Israel, causing dozens of injuries.


Now in our second week of the conflict, we have seen continuing damage to both Israel and Iran, as well as direct US intervention which nonetheless seems to have caused limited damage to Fordow and little damage to Iran's nuclear program. Regime change seems more elusive than ever, as even Iranians previously critical of the government now rally around it as they are attacked by two rabid imperialists at once. And Iran's government is tentatively considering a withdrawal, or at minimum a reconsideration, of their membership to the IAEA and the NPT. And, of course, the Strait of Hormuz is still a tool in their arsenal.

A day or so on from the strike on Fordow, we have so far seen basically no change in strategy from the Iranian military as they continue to strike Israel with small barrages of missiles. Military analysts argue furiously - is this a deliberate strategy of steady attrition on Israel, or indicative of immense material constraints on Iran? Are the hits by Israel on real targets, or are they decoys? Does Iran wish to develop a nuke, or are they still hesitating? Will Iran and Yemen strike at US warships and bases in response to the attack, or will they merely continue striking only Israel?

And perhaps most importantly - will this conflict end diplomatically due to a lack of appetite for an extended war (to wit: not a peace but a 20 year armistice) or with Israel forced into major concessions including an end to their genocide? Or even with a total military/societal collapse of either side?


Last week's thread is here. The Imperialism Reading Group is here.

Please check out the RedAtlas!

The bulletins site is here. Currently not used.
The RSS feed is here. Also currently not used.

Israel-Palestine Conflict

If you have evidence of Israeli crimes and atrocities that you wish to preserve, there is a thread here in which to do so.

Sources on the fighting in Palestine against Israel. In general, CW for footage of battles, explosions, dead people, and so on:

UNRWA reports on Israel's destruction and siege of Gaza and the West Bank.

English-language Palestinian Marxist-Leninist twitter account. Alt here.
English-language twitter account that collates news.
Arab-language twitter account with videos and images of fighting.
English-language (with some Arab retweets) Twitter account based in Lebanon. - Telegram is @IbnRiad.
English-language Palestinian Twitter account which reports on news from the Resistance Axis. - Telegram is @EyesOnSouth.
English-language Twitter account in the same group as the previous two. - Telegram here.

English-language PalestineResist telegram channel.
More telegram channels here for those interested.

Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Examples of Ukrainian Nazis and fascists
Examples of racism/euro-centrism during the Russia-Ukraine conflict

Sources:

Defense Politics Asia's youtube channel and their map. Their youtube channel has substantially diminished in quality but the map is still useful.
Moon of Alabama, which tends to have interesting analysis. Avoid the comment section.
Understanding War and the Saker: reactionary sources that have occasional insights on the war.
Alexander Mercouris, who does daily videos on the conflict. While he is a reactionary and surrounds himself with likeminded people, his daily update videos are relatively brainworm-free and good if you don't want to follow Russian telegram channels to get news. He also co-hosts The Duran, which is more explicitly conservative, racist, sexist, transphobic, anti-communist, etc when guests are invited on, but is just about tolerable when it's just the two of them if you want a little more analysis.
Simplicius, who publishes on Substack. Like others, his political analysis should be soundly ignored, but his knowledge of weaponry and military strategy is generally quite good.
On the ground: Patrick Lancaster, an independent and very good journalist reporting in the warzone on the separatists' side.

Unedited videos of Russian/Ukrainian press conferences and speeches.

Pro-Russian Telegram Channels:

Again, CW for anti-LGBT and racist, sexist, etc speech, as well as combat footage.

https://t.me/aleksandr_skif ~ DPR's former Defense Minister and Colonel in the DPR's forces. Russian language.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad ~ A few different pro-Russian people gather frequent content for this channel (~100 posts per day), some socialist, but all socially reactionary. If you can only tolerate using one Russian telegram channel, I would recommend this one.
https://t.me/s/levigodman ~ Does daily update posts.
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday ~ Patrick Lancaster's telegram channel.
https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ A big Russian commentator.
https://t.me/rybar ~ One of, if not the, biggest Russian telegram channels focussing on the war out there. Actually quite balanced, maybe even pessimistic about Russia. Produces interesting and useful maps.
https://t.me/epoddubny ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/mod_russia_en ~ Russian Ministry of Defense. Does daily, if rather bland updates on the number of Ukrainians killed, etc. The figures appear to be approximately accurate; if you want, reduce all numbers by 25% as a 'propaganda tax', if you don't believe them. Does not cover everything, for obvious reasons, and virtually never details Russian losses.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses ~ Pro-Russian, documents abuses that Ukraine commits.

Pro-Ukraine Telegram Channels:

Almost every Western media outlet.
https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.
https://t.me/ice_inii ~ Alleged Ukrainian account with a rather cynical take on the entire thing.


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[-] [email protected] 64 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The latest Simplicius: Humiliation: Israel Tucks Tail After Failing All Objectives in War against Victorious Iran

I think the title's blatant triumphalism betrays how there's a battle in the media over the portrayal of the conflict, with both sides basically doing their own victory dances. I will say that the Israeli side does look a little depressed as the fragility of their society and economy and military has been laid bare, and there does appear to be a psychological blow to Zionists that may or may not translate into lasting change (e.g. mass evacuations). But like, you shouldn't have to constantly insist that you've won a conflict; the results should speak for themselves beyond all doubt. So I'm personally comfortable calling this a draw, but let's see what Simplicius has to say about it.

  • Simplicius's previous argument that the strike on Fordow [using 14 bunker busters and not 6 like I thought? I'm not sure if I'm just losing my mind but I thought the US said 30 missiles and 6 bunker busters?] was an allowed strike seems strengthened by the fact that Iran responded with what was basically certain to be an allowed strike on Al Udeid.
  • All parties involved got an off-ramp from a conflict that, even if it wasn't going particularly great for Iran, was going very badly for Israel - you don't want to get involved in an attrition war if you are a tiny state with infrastructure that can be easily disabled and you are opposing a country with ten times as many people and thousands of ballistic missiles.
  • Iran had already taken out a significant number of Israeli heavy drones (combat-capable, rather than merely surveillance), such as Hermes drones. It's not clear how many Israel has, but we're talking a couple dozen of each type, not hundreds.
  • These Israeli drones and missiles were the primary method of destruction on sensitive military targets. As more were shot down, Israeli jets would have needed to move further into Iran and risk being shot down.
  • There is still little evidence that Israel was capable of flying over Iranian territory for any meaningful distance. The only evidence we have is that of Israeli jets over a coastal city. All Israeli combat footage over Iran was taken from drones. Now, we have seen Israeli fuel tanks wash up on the Caspian Sea coast, showing that Israel flew in from the north to bombard Tehran, rather than flying all the way through Iran to hit it. This isn't to be like "See! Israel has been fricking owned!!" because like, they can still bombard Tehran and do heavy damage - it's just important to clarify how that was done so that people don't learn the wrong lessons.
  • Despite Trump's insistence, it's increasingly clear that if Iran's nuclear program has been set back at all (which it might not have) then it is only briefly. It is well-known that Iran's enriched uranium was shifted out of Fordow, and its location is not publically known. Some (in American media, even!) go further to say that Fordow was basically untouched and that the centrifuges are fine, according to leaks from White House intelligence.
  • Simplicius says that the US only has - well, had - 20 GBU-57s, and if that's true, then their production rate must be truly glacial. With 14 dropped, there are now 6 remaining, which is insufficient for any kind of broad campaign against Iranian underground capabilities, especially if 14 of them were dropped on Fordow and it was fine, or at least not obliterated. [This point by Simplicius seems flatly incorrect, US production of these sorts of bombs is more along the lines of 6-8 per month, and they only have 20 of a very specific model.]
  • Iran's airforce was basically a no-show during this conflict. It's not clear what happened with that; some are suggesting they were moved to the far east to be out of harm's way, and perhaps if the conflict intensified and became extended then they would step in. It's probably also not a bad idea to conserve as many planes as possible, especially as some of their pilots train on the Russian jets they received.
  • The Israeli modus operandi against other regional actors was applied to Iran and met similar failure - they attempted a military victory and lost, and lost quite badly at that. Now, again, this isn't to say that Israel is therefore owned and mad, because where Israel seems to actually do quite well is in winning the peace - they are great at infiltrating and undermining nations that have been weakened by war even if technically victorious. We saw this happen in Lebanon and Syria, for instance.
  • Simplicius says that it's not clear when the conflict will erupt again - maybe in hours, maybe in days, maybe even months or years. But Iran has created a degree of deterrence. Importantly, it has dealt a heavy blow to Israel's IMEC plan to create a new transport corridor to the Mediterranean that bypasses unfriendly states, with Haifa's port damaged and clearly much more vulnerable than the alternatives (such as the existing Suez Canal route, and China's BRI), which is important on a geopolitical level. China just can't stop winning, folks. They're getting tired of winning.
[-] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Simplicius should be reading our own @[email protected], as a lot of those assertions are just plain wrong. For example, they have way more of those bunker busters and manufacture 6-8/month. The 20 refers to a specific model number of them, presumably the one with the George H. W. Bush memorial tailfin.

I agree that clearly Israel/the US didn't deliver a knockout blow to Iran's nuclear program, but they did hit a lot of anti air, suppressed missile launchers, and more critically, they demonstrated willingness and ability to indiscriminately bomb civilian infrastructure. Missile launchers can hide, apartment blocks and universities can't.

[-] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

For example, they have way more of those bunker busters and manufacture 6-8/month

Do we actually know this for sure though? What seems to be available as information is:

  1. They started being delivered in September 2011

  2. There were 20 bombs as of 2015

  3. They were manufactured at a rate of 2 per month, until an expansion of production facilities in July 2024 to 6-8 per month (https://archive.is/KB5Tg)

I kind of doubt that the "2 per month" necessarily indicates that every month since 2015 has seen those 2 manufactured - it's a pretty niche weapon, and I doubt they've been constantly manufacturing them all this time. After all, those 20 that we know about took 4 years, which is a rate of 5 per year - or 0.42 per month, not 2.

Additionally, I feel that it's reasonable to be skeptical of any claims of increasing capacity by Western MIC (and industry in general, how's the CHIPS act going?), given that they've been going on about increasing capacity (particularly of artillery shells) since soon after the start of the Ukraine war and yet not much seems to have materialized. If we're trying to get an idea of how US military procurement is going, recently the Army canceled or reduced to minimum sustainment rate a bunch of stuff, like:

  • the new M10 Booker thing-that-people-endlessly-argue-is-or-isn't-a-tank (this whole vehicle is, in my admittedly amateur opinion, in-and-of-itself is indication of severe decline in manufacturing capacity, but that's a whole other thing)
  • the AMPV and Stryker armored personnel carriers (which means thousands of M113s, a vehicle design from 1960, will remain in service - I thought the Russians still using old BTRs was supposed to be an indication of how much they sucked?)
  • Humvees and MRAPs, which admittedly are probably not that relevant outside of a COIN context, but if they're getting canceled, one would expect there to at least be a re-focusing on conventional APCs, like the Stryker - but those are getting canceled too! (the lack of sufficient numbers of vehicles like that is exactly why the Humvee saw such widespread use to begin with - it was meant for the same role as the classic WW2 Jeep, never intended for frontline usage, but it ended up doing it in Iraq anyway, with US troops having to improvise applique armor out of chunks of metal they could buy or salvage)
  • this one's merely "paused", but the new self-propelled artillery program - the 4th in a row one to not go anywhere (https://x.com/ArmchairW/status/1780850610864267756 for some info on the previous 3). This is right as the Ukraine war is demonstrating, firstly that artillery is still very important (and particularly self-propelled artillery due to the need for shoot-and-scoot tactics in order to avoid getting immediately counter-batteried), and secondly that current Western systems have a lot of issues, especially with regards to durability

Now, historically the Air Force has generally been able to get their way with regards to funding much more than the Army, so they're probably doing a lot better. But still, there are clearly a lot of problems in US military procurement.

[-] [email protected] 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Also, another note on manufacturing - this bunker buster uses tungsten, I'm not clear on how much but it's presumably a substantial amount given the total weight. I've brought this up before, but it just so happens that the biggest tungsten producers are... China, Vietnam, and Russia (with Bolivia being 5th evo, and even North Korea showing up with a little bit kim-jong-il).

Given the wide variety of industrial applications, tungsten's obviously pretty pricey, and we already have an example of lack of tungsten affecting US procurement - the NGSW program, which intended to introduce a new rifle and fancy cartridge that could penetrate modern armor. Except, instead of doing what is traditionally done when you want armor penetration, which is use a harder material (and given that steel alloys aren't sufficient anymore, the next step is tungsten), they went with highly-overpressurized rounds - essentially, instead of making the projectile harder, you make it travel faster and with more energy, in the hope that this will compensate. In practice, as more information is starting to come out with those rifles now in service, it seems like such penetration isn't actually really achieved, and tungsten-tipped variants will be needed anyway (https://www.armytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2023/02/28/the-not-really-next-generation-weapons-program/#%3A%7E%3Atext=tungsten)

So why did they bother with this whole thing in the first place, given that tungsten-tipped variants already exist for existing calibers (https://www.nammo.com/product/our-products/ammunition/small-caliber-ammunition/7-62mm-series/7-62-mm-x-51-armor-piercing-8-m993/, https://www.nammo.com/product/our-products/ammunition/small-caliber-ammunition/5-56mm-series/5-56-mm-x-45-armor-piercing-45/)? Well, because those are far too expensive to field in large quantities - precisely because of the use of tungsten.

Now of course, a handful of aircraft bombs are a very different manufacturing context from millions of rounds, but said bombs also obviously involve a substantially larger amount of material. So even if the US wanted to make a whole bunch of these, there's simply a hard limit imposed by availability of tungsten.

(also, something else about the tungsten producers - Canada's actually 4th, so I guess we might see the Fallout 1 intro but about ores instead of oil what-in-the-goddamn)

[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago

(also, something else about the tungsten producers - Canada's actually 4th, so I guess we might see the Fallout 1 intro but about ores instead of oil )

Funny thing is that the new Liberal minority government, with the help of the Conservative party, recently passed a prominent piece of legislation that seems laser-focused on making it easy for mining companies to ignore a lot of safety and environmental regulations. I wonder if the idea is to make Canada the go-to source for minerals important for the US defence industry and use that as a trade-negotiation bargaining chip now that the US is having problems sourcing them from China, Russia, and countries allied with China and/or Russia.

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this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2025
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