this post was submitted on 16 May 2025
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36
Regarding Mid-East-related Comments on !europe (feddit.org)
submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
132 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Hi.

In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.

While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.

And with that, let's go:

In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called "Reason of State" introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as "Israel-related antisemitism".

Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it's not that fun.

There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.

If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
  • Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
  • Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
  • The slogan "from the river..."
  • Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
  • ... and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis

Comments will not be removed for the following:

  • Denouncing genocide.
  • Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
  • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
  • Referring to the current Israeli government as "criminal," "expansionist," or "far-right".

If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I'd also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @[email protected] account (which all mods have access to).

To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).

  • A news report:

    Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o'clock in the morning. A loud, continuous "banging" against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. [...] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK "storm" past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. [...] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student's profile: "From the river [...]

  • A legal treatise:

    In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, "the slogan 'From the River to the Sea' (in German or other languages)" is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. [...] the current legal situation [regarding "Denial of Israel's right to exist"] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor's office.

  • Press release from the previous government:

    In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel's existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas's actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of "approval of criminal acts" under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).

  • Another news report

    In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. "In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event", several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions ...)

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Amnesty International

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Human Rights Watch

federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)

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[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

I most certainly did NOT equate Hamas with Palestinians. Here is my position. You just did that equation, out of nowhere, changing the subject from the right of Palestinians to violently resist occupation to Hamas atrocities.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Alright, sorry then, I hadn't seen the other comment. I thought you were arguing in practical rather than theoretical terms, and Hamas supposedly being a legitimate opposition is an argument I have seen before. Afaik, PLO has not been violent for decades.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

My theoretical argument stands though: were the PLO to decide to take up arms again, they would have every right to do so, so long as they abide by the rules of war. This means attacking IDF installations, killing IDF personnel. Armed struggle, violence against Israeli jewish soldiers. One can argue whether politically, or from a humanitarian perspective that would be good or not, smart or not, morally acceptable or not. But that's beside the point. I want to make sure I get on record here that accepting this kind of violence against Israel as legitimate is not grounds for whatever penalty is envisioned here.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I don't think I would outright delete it, if reasoned well. We are and have been deleting outright calls to violence in any case, on any topic though.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

All right, thanks for your patience with me then.