this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2025
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I might start throwing Heinlein in the same bucket as GK Chesterton. Wrong a lot, but wrong in interesting ways, and so close to getting it.
That whole book is a wild read. It's about how and why to be involved in politics. Some of it is kind of a 1940s manual on how to operate a campaign, but a lot of it is talking about why it's important to be engaged and pay attention, and also stuff like this:
Heinlein has plenty of issues, but I feel like a lot of people overlook his positives.
I feel like a lot of people forget just how wildly different the time Heinlein was raised in was. He may have been wrong-headed in our current view about a fair amount of things--particular his work prior to the mid-60s or so--but that's a cultural issue, rather than someone that was pig-headedly stupid. The quote you have--"[...] forbidding gambling, sale of liquor, sale of contraceptives, requiring definite closing hours, enforcing the Sabbath [...]--is especially ironic because AFAIK Heinlein appears to have had open/polyamorous marriages (...or multiamorous/polyerotic, if you're a linguistic pedant); that sort of inclination should be quite antithetical to laws enforcing religious doctrine or sexual morality.
I don't know that there's any irony there. In my reading, the passage is actually advocating against such laws. And is aimed at the kind of thinking that leads to such laws.
I don't think he is condoning or advocating for such thinking in that passage - more saying that, if you do want these kind of laws (while he lists some contemporary examples) you have to realise that it won't actually work and will have other, negative consequences. That's not him necessarily condoning the thinking or actual moral standing of those examples. Just pointing out what he sees are the realities of such laws.
I dunno. Sounds like he's not opposed to them, just doesn't think that they're effective without going after root-cause issues. (...Which, I would like to point out, is one of the huge fucking problems that people in favor of banning guns have. E.g., address the root causes of violence, and you stop the violence without curtailing the civil right.) He doesn't seem to have a problem with addressing the root causes so that there's no need for the laws in the first place, and doesn't appear to be arguing against the things he lists as being 'social ills' in the first place. (He did think that the youth of his time were declining morally, which is a tale that goes back to at least the Greek city-states.)
Fundamentally though, yeah, laws alone rarely change behavior; you need to change the material and social conditions to change behavior.
He told us that the only good bug is a dead bug
Actually that's Paul Verhoeven and Edward Neumeier writing the movie Starship Troopers, which I maintain is a dumb movie with aspirations of being a smart movie, pretending to be a dumb movie.
Just as an example, in the scene where the guy asks why they're learning to throw knives when they have ICBMs, here's Heinlein's take:
...and in the movie the guy just gets a knife through the hand and Zim says "Try to push a button now!" They're not exactly equivalent. This (admittedly quite long) series discusses the issues with Verhoeven's interpretation of Heinlein, but the short of it is that Verhoeven and Heinlein were such fundamentally different people that the very idea of Verhoeven adaptating Heinlein is absurd.
It was a couple years ago i read the book but if i don't miss remember completely here, it is pretty funny how the sergeant makes all that talk and in the actual fighting (the little of it there is) they mostly sling nukes as a skirmishing tactic.
Verhoevens best scene is the subversion of the the enlistment scene. In the book the recruitment officers says the line about "star fleet making him the man he is today" fully meaning it and the book never gives a hint that it junta system has any real flaws.
[...]
The guy with no legs is definitely in the book, and he strenuously tries to convince Rico not to join.
Verhoeven never read that scene in full because he didn't read the book at all.
lolz Sarge explains it better than Clausewitz. Heinlein representing his US Naval Academy knowledge.
Agreed, he tried to make a satire but only made a b-movie.
I've read the book several times, it's a completely different style.
I was also incredibly disappointed when I saw a trailer for the movie and they were not in power armor.
But the "the only good bug is a dead bug" quote is from the book, following the event in Buenos Aires.
Heinlein wrote a lot of characters in his novels who were there to make you think, right or wrong or otherwise. I'm not so sure he himself was wrong, but he wasn't trying to be right. He just wanted us to think.