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this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2025
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It’s a tossup if they go for free market Mad Max or if they start doing handouts to the elderly in exchange for votes. With liberals the first one is guaranteed. Ultimately it’s up to the voters to choose and not internet commentators like us. That right was denied to them.
I think that America is currently doing a fine job of demonstrating how there are ways to do economic violence faster than neoliberalism
For the people to choose, there has to be some measure of a level playing field and informed undestanding of the options. The influence campaign in support of Georgescu violated those principles
Trump is a moron when it comes to economics but he’s not really a political ideologue rather than a grifter surrounded by a mixture of neoliberals and fascists unified by a common goal of making money. What’s happening in America is just late stages of neoliberalism which converges with fascism as time goes on.
As to influence campaigns - everything is one. Our conversation is an influence campaign so where do you draw the line? I’ve seen many attempts but it always looked like it wasn’t done in good faith by any of the sides. You’ll probably say this is financed covertly and used social media to distort truth. This description matches how free market economics are being force fed by mainstream media owned by the most wealthy. I’m for banning all or nothing, otherwise it’s just a tool for politicians to gain unfair advantage over others.
I think that your analysis of Trump is just the motivations behind his actions rather than any reason to not categorise him as far right.
Regardless of where either of us would personally draw it, surely the existing point at which that line was drawn in Romania before the election should matter? That's what the Romanian courts ruled that the influence campaign had crossed over. Whether it's in the best place or not, just one of several sides covertly stepping over it clearly creates a huge advantage for that side
I’m not putting a label on Trump because he has few core beliefs but many whims. People like him and what’s called far right are not playing the traditional political game anymore and produce extreme ambiguity on purpose (those weird nazi salutes are a part of this). That’s because while we debate if Elon is a nazi (he is) or if Trump is a nazi (he’s not), they get to continue doing their business and with how systems and taxes are built that’s the only thing they need to do to continue gaining money (which now equals power).
Western watchdogs, Venice commission and various NGOs don’t see it like that. It was done arbitrarily, based on confidential information and without a right to appeal. I get that many people sigh with relief but this thing should have been done honestly, with heavy burden of what this really means long term and therefore with a plan to make things right. I’m pretty sure nobody is going to make things right because it was done so that things could remain the same. And they remain the same because that way the rich continue getting richer, which is a point I’m circling back to because it’s so important. We are now at decades of this trend and we’re getting dangerously close to going back to feudalism which is the absolute worst that could happen, worse than fascism even imo.
I can't speak to the others you mentioned because I don't know which ones you mean, but this one isn't true. The Venice Commission's report ( https://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/?pdf=CDL-PI%282025%29001-e ) includes:
And reiterates that in the conclusion:
They - rightly, in my opinion - extensively discuss how serious a matter it is to annul an election. However, what they were actually asked for was not a ruling on Georgescu's case, but rather a more general view:
They give a list of recommendations of when it might be appropriate and how it should be done. They do not say that Romania acted improperly, nor say that such annulments are never appropriate.
The European Court of Human Rights very firmly rejected Georgescu's claims as well https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-242417%22]}
I'm not responding to the other stuff not because I mean to ignore it or because I have no response, rather just that I think we've got a difference of opinion that's too subjective for either of us to meaningfully persuade the other. I do understand where you're coming from, even if we arrive at different conclusions.