this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2025
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"Trump won't even be that bad, you LIBERALS are just fearmongering!"
God. It's going to be a long [insert period of time here]
bUt ThE DeMoCraTz DidN't dO EnOugH fOr tHe WOrKinG cLaSs!!
I mean... they didn't though. That's why they struggle to win in the general even though their platform as stated is good for the populace. When they don't actually follow through on that, people have a hard time believing them even though they're clearly the lesser of two evils.
The Democrats foster their own worst enemy: voter apathy. And it doesn't help that they also foster extremism in the opposition party and then turn around and try to extort the American public with it.
You see the guy throwing the nazi salute up there? Ok? That's what you get. For openers.
The insanity will mount quickly. If you believe it's worth it to "send a message to Democrats" I dunno what to say.
Excuse me? I've voted for 3 people in a row that I didn't believe deserved to be the nominee, let alone president. Every time I voted against them in the primaries because I didn't believe they stood a good chance in the general, nor would they be good for the country while in office. For Kamala, I didn't even get the opportunity to vote against her in the primary but I did vote for uncommitted delegates over Joe Biden. Every time, I voted for them in the general even though that vote was coerced through a corrupt system that refuses to let me vote for someone who actually represents me.
8 goddamn years of listening to high and mighty people like you telling me how everything that's happening is my fault even though I voted against what was happening at every turn. Fuck off.
Well if you voted, that's all anyone can ask for.
What meetings did you go to? Any? None. You went to none, right? Did you help someone campaign? No? Well that's not a corrupt system that's a system you have no part in not picking who you want. You can see how that might happen, right.
Eight whole years? Damn, that's amazing. But those are rookie numbers. You gotta pump up those numbers to get into the high and mighty club. Try 16 years, 20 years, 30 years. More. Democrats refusing to understand how communication works and republiQans descending into open nazism the whole time. Third parties somehow, astoundingly, being even worse. Then watch a bunch of idiots decide to not vote because "the system is corrupt" and allow a demented incompetent nazi rapist into office. And how did you think it was your ~~fucking~~ fault again ~~you fuck~~? Because if you voted, that's the very best thing you can do. If you voted and want to say the Democrats need to do more for the working class, please do. I'll join you. Again.
Lol, you wanna square this "oh I'm on the same side as you" with your immediate attack on me based on nothing but your assumption? Because I can't figure out what in my original response you disagree with if what you say here is true. You just immediately went full neoliberal attack on any criticism of the Democrats, so frankly I don't buy your bullshit here.
8 years is how long the Democrats have been openly and unashamedly thumbing the scale in their primaries (starting in 2016) and the start of the progressive movement, it's not a competition.
So, the initial premise is: there are a large segment of voters who purposefully, deliberately, did not vote because they wanted to "send the Democrats a message" or some idiot thing like that. They supported trump in doing so, and despite having that explained in every language and manner possibly available, they still sat at home while the faithful chuds drove their unfathomably large trucks to the polls as expected.
So you come in with "Yeah but the Democrats do suck" and I assumed you were saying "it is right and proper not to vote" which - no. But then you did vote so - well, okay.
And fwiw I think your "thumb on the scale" is not very accurate with the notable and egregious exception of the DWS years which led to her immediate ousting and we never want to see that shit again. 2020 Biden had his primary and whoever your candidate was (assuming Bernie?) had their run to win that and didn't. A dark horse often emerges in the primaries, that's how we got Clinton. In 2024, Biden made the unfortunate decision to run again and that threw everything off because there wouldn't be a proper primary, until the debate performance convinced him to withdraw. In that case there simply wasn't time for a national primary again, without creating and/or bending a bunch of rules that essentially allowed for an emergency nationwide all-at-once vote just for Democrats to pick the next candidate which was never going to happen and shouldn't.
That said, I've seen more than my fill of milquetoast men with nice hair and kakhi pants try to be Reagan lite and can't stomach anything more like that. This bullshit with Pelosi denying AOC of House Oversight is a similar piece of bullshit. I expect four years of Democrats putting out press releases of being "very concerned" and doing jack shit in public, in the press, like they should. The ones who have already turned traitor for the cabinet picks are on the list. But we'll see. Maybe we can balance things in two years. It depends if some of these idiot fucks get out and vote this time.
You make some wild assumptions to argue against and it's exhausting. I think you should read back your replies to me and make note of all the times you just assume something and then throw it at me as an attack.
You conveniently left out the part where you threw the first stone at left-leaning voters who lobby criticism against the Democratic Party:
I responded to that by pointing out that the thing you stated to mock people who hold that sentiment is actually true. (But now you've pivoted and actually think it is true? I can't figure your stance out at all.) You didn't say anything about nonvoters, no one before you said anything about nonvoters, I was the one who pointed out that nonvoters were a problem by claiming the Democrats foster voter apathy. Does that seem like something a nonvoter would say? But you proceeded to launch an attack against me regardless. And when I pushed backed you kept attacking based on assumptions.
For example: You started throwing out insults about my participation in the political process based on, again, assumptions.
Well, you weren't entirely wrong but you are pretty ableist. You're right that I don't go to meetings. I'm autistic and cannot contribute very well socially. Turning it on for work drains me to the point where I can't muster anything else for being around people. I can't understand speech very easily in noisy environments, and even when I can understand I don't interpret the same way as other people. So instead I research candidates locally and nationally and support in other ways, mainly by donating to progressive primary campaigns. My representative is a pretty safe progressive seat so I don't usually donate to them, but I do donate to progressives for other local and state offices, I donated to Bernie in 2016 and 2020, and I'll usually look for other key progressive campaigns in other states to support.
And we do disagree on one thing: I perceived the 2020 primary as a planned, concerted effort by the party to flood the field in order to drown out the fringes, and then drop and push everything towards Biden leading up to Super Tuesday. That's not even getting into suspicions of both parties using media outlets to push propaganda. I'm still waiting for a primary where the DNC operates in a way to actually let the public form opinions rather than engineering it to push their preferred candidate. As far as I can tell the last time that happened was Obama in 2008 and the party has worked hard ever since to make the primary a farce.
Yeah that "first stone" as you say was heavily weighted in the "I'm not going to vote and it's because . . " but I didn't write that part because I thought it was already in the context of the reply.
Apologies for assuming incorrectly, all I'm really asking for is a vote - any vote, really, but ideally one that is most likely to defeat an enormous evil. Outside of that, criticism of DNC policies or whatever is almost certainly fair enough. The only way to change it is to make our voices heard though, whether it's email, phone call, or other. Which is a drag, because they should already know this, but that's politics. Any kind of politics.
The things you were replying to were about Republican voters? You made it about Democratic voters.
It was about non-voters. More specifically “lefty” non-voters.
Look, maybe it's the autism acting up again but I legitimately don't see it. Can you help me see where it turned to lefties before your comment? The OP is about Elon, a right wing figure, with the narcissist's prayer excusing his behavior. Very clearly a criticism of a specific right winger.
Then this comment:
I read that as a pseudoquote of a hypothetical right wing voter. Complete with the way they spew "LIBERAL." "Trump won't be that bad" isn't a common lefty position I've seen, most of us voted against our own conscience specifically to keep Trump out.
Then the dino comic that, arguably, could be considered a depiction of your hypothetical lefties. But with the context of the comment it replied to I interpreted it more as a Leopards Ate My Face depiction of Republican voters voting against their own interests.
Then you entered with what appeared to me to be a hard turn towards blaming the far left for what's happening on the right.
I think the difference in my interpretation is that many of the lefty people commenting about the utter failure of the Democratic party are particularly scornful of “liberals” to the point where they use the term “libs”. I’ve been told being a liberal makes me both transphobic and in support of Palestinian genocide. These same people said they were not voting because they would rather trump win than support Democrats. And they identify as leftist - some flavor of socialist, communist, anarchist, Other, or combination thereof, and they would rather trump win. Which he did, to their great and ignorant loss.
IMO, you shouldn't be so quick to apply that particular extreme version of a lefty to everyone who criticizes the Democratic Party. That's a minority you're describing. Most lefties voted for Clinton, Biden, and Harris. Unless you want to dig into history to lobby the same criticism at Clinton supporters who voted for McCain. There's always people who don't make sense who do stuff like that. Plus many people who were Bernie supporters in 2016 were never really lefties to begin with. I'm not saying that as a "no true Scotsman" thing, just that Bernie attracted a wider range of people fed up with the establishment and some of them would not have self-identified as a leftist.
It's quite prejudiced to just blanket assume everyone to your left is this extreme version you've concocted. And before you say you don't do that, remember how aggressive you were to me when I gave you zero indication that I fell into your little lefty box.
It's been almost a year-long fight with "lefties" who came out of lemmy.ml and other places to explain to those of us who thought we were lefties that no, we weren't lefties and in fact we were horrible people who should be ashamed of ever supporting Democrats. (the logical conclusion being that trump would win this election did not bother them at all.)
I appreciate it if you didn't see all that, but if you'd like to scroll through some of the more popular posts on politics or politicalmemes or progressivepolitics or usaauthoritarianism or some other communities like that, you'll see it's not a rare event, it's happened a lot. There are some posts that are very much specifically about that.
It's partly to do with the plastic nature of the term "lefty" and how much some "on the left" were gatekeeping it as well as working diligently to damage the Democratic party's chances in November. It's ridiculous to begin with and the larger upshot is that we now have trump, so they got their wish. Everything horrible that happens under trump is something they fully wanted to happen because they did not support Harris or any other Democrat due to their myopic views of party politics which they would not be swayed from for any reasons. They're still around, but only a couple of die-hards, the vast majority have not posted since the election which, frankly, is also in line with a coordinated campaign to cause division, although they'd prefer not to see that either.
None of that justifies the extreme response you had to a criticism of Democrats. One that I feel is quite valid and from your responses it kinda feels like you don't disagree.
All I'm saying is don't be so prejudiced against people who criticize the Democrats. We're not all that minority you're talking about.
And to paraphrase you: a year long fight? Those are rookie numbers. You gotta pump those numbers up. It's been 8+ years of centrists accusing progressives of being responsible for everything wrong with the Democrats and Republicans. With things exactly like your comment that kicked this whole thing off. So I'm sorry if this past year has been hard with the asshats from ml, I would urge you not to perpetuate that behavior yourself. Chances are you're doing it to someone who's been dealing with it a lot longer than a year.
So maybe don't tell people to fuck off first thing? Fair enough.
I think you'll find that was after you baselessly attacked me.
Okay.
Hey, here’s another one, see? https://lemmy.world/post/24641276
They didn't. That's why they lost the election lol
I thought it was the genocide. I'm getting whiplash.
Its both really
Pretty much sums up a conversation with my brother yesterday.
My mom said he was waving to the crowd. Absolutely disgusting.
"Elon is a friend of the Jews. He can't be a Nazi" -my brother
Does he know how the Jews followed them at first?