this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2025
41 points (100.0% liked)
menby
8005 readers
118 users here now
A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.
Detoxing masculinity since 1990!
You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.
Guidelines:
- Questions over blame
- Humility over pride
- Wisdom over dogma
- Actions over image
Rules (expansions on the guidelines):
- Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
- Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
- If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
- If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
- This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
- A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
- Examples:
- "This is reactionary. Here's why."
- "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
- "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
- You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
- Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
- If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
- If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
- If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
- No singular masculine ideal.
- This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
- Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
- Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
- This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
- No lifestyle content.
- Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
- Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
- At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
- If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.
Resources:
*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
If you have read the book through how did you come up with this number? Asking out of genuine interest.
I made it the fuck up as a ballpark because I forgot the exact figure but the simple answer is that the western masculine and feminine social roles that he constantly gestures towards were invented to serve the interests of the elite land/private-property owning class as western powers moved away from feudalism towards mercantile capitalism and eventually the industrial revolution and imperialist global conquest.
The men go to work and have the surplus value they generate for the boss stolen while women stay at home and perform all the maintenance labor for free (such as taking care of the kids). This was the social model pushed on the masses by the elites because it ensured smooth operation of a system where they benefited the most.
He attributes real social problems like expensive cost of living/nonexistant employee bargaining power/social malaise due to the systems we use to relate to each other being fundamentally antagonistic and anti-human solely to a mystical individualist problem (a crisis of initiation), an interesting theory but a gross oversimplification of reality.
400 years ago is 1625.
That's very close to the time when the first ever common stock was issued - 1602. It was issued by the Dutch East India company to fund "adventures" in the indies where they "traded", plunderer, kidnapped, and squatted. It was, in essence, the beginning of the current formation wherein colonialism and private business fused into a global network of terror, slavery, mass murder, and grand theft.
That was about 100 years after Europeans began colonizing the Western Hemisphere and at the same time completed the Reconquista against the Muslim kingdoms (driving them from Europe and establishing the continent as Christian) so some would say the ideas of masculinity today really started to form 500 years ago.