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these folks sure are quiet these days (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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i can't even guess as to why they went quiet. not one guess at all. we will never know.

edit: well they're not quiet now once they get called out

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[–] -2 points 2 years ago (18 children)

The children are the people vehemently demanding the DNC unilaterally employ their chosen platform, under the pretense that it would instantly solve their problems, and then subsequently abstaining out of protest. The political landscape is more complicated than that.

I've said elsewhere, elections are won on popularity, not policy. If the DNC unilaterally shifts to a pro-worker platform, all their wealthy donors shift to attack ads against them. Adopting more popular policies can ironically lose them votes as those policies get misrepresented to voters by propagandists.

Add to that the habit of progressives to abstain when a platform isn't perfectly catered to them, and you have an impossible situation where you're trying to court multiple conflicting demographics while the financial support you once had has been turned against you.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (17 children)

    the children in this case being the people who don't support genocides? got it. and you wonder why harris lost the 'popularity' contest. jesus christ.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (16 children)

    We play the hand we're dealt. Accelerated genocide + fascism is a worse outcome than performative resistance to genocide.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (15 children)

    You were not dealt this hand, you chose it by not telling them 'no'. it is the most powerful word you have in your arsenal learn to use it. there is a reason utilitarianism is panned basically universally in ethics classes. Had you been willing to exercise it against the DNC you might not be in the very situation you find yourself in now.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (14 children)

    How did that work out for all the people who said no? Now Trump will help Bibi annex the West Bank. I've taken Ethics, utilitarianism was absolutely not panned.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (13 children)
    1. you had a shit ethics professor.
    2. bibi already has the west bank and it was done under biden's watch and harris supported it.
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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (12 children)

    "Every ethics course pans utilitarianism"

    "I took ethics and they gave very serious consideration to utilitarianism"

    "Am I out of touch? No, it's the ethics professors who are wrong"

    Do you hear yourself?

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  • [+] 1 point 2 years ago (11 children)
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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    Name one single ethical philosophy that can't lead to negative outcomes.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 years ago (9 children)
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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (8 children)

    So deontology? An absolute trash philosophy, see the Paradox of Deontology. Lying is wrong, so you shouldn't lie to the axe murderer when they ask where your family is. Enabling genocide is wrong, so we should let the person who wants to accelerate that genocide and enable others get into a position to do so. Many more will suffer and die, but hey at least you can be smug about your virtues.

    This is a childish philosophy for childish people. It says "Who cares about the consequences of my choices. All that matters is that I don't have to make any difficult choices when presented with an ethical dilemma. Who cares if the death tolls skyrocket." It disincentivizes action in the very situations that most desperately rely on ethical considerations.

    If you make "the right choice" and more people directly suffer because of it, you didn't make the right choice. You made excuses.

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  • [+] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)
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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (6 children)

    Slapping labels on things are how we discuss ideas. If you can't describe your worldview, you can't support or defend it. That said, the consequentialist stance is less label-obsessed than you. It only cares about results, not the philosophical pathway you followed to get there

    How is erecting an absolute rule in ethical behavior distinct from deontology? Your stance against utilitarianism logically extrapolates to all consequentialism, and all teleology at that. You've constructed a philosophy where the rule, Don't Support Genocide, is elevated over the consequences, genocide is accelerated and expanded.

    More deaths is an explicitly negative result, so your ethical philosophy failed at the one thing it was supposed to do. Defend your virtues all you want while the suffering of those actually affected skyrockets. Childish excuses.

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  • [+] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)
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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

    other people communicate via music, math, pictures, touch, analogies, pick a form of information transfer.

    These are all variations on labels. They are either effective forms of information transfer, or they're ineffective. Effective information transfer requires that the recipient can accurately decode the meaning of the message. If your communication mode accomplished that, congratulations you've made a label by another name. If it did not, you have not communicated your message.

    No one is saying genocide isn't wrong, that's a ridiculous straw man. What people are saying is there are two outcomes: everyone in group A dies, or everyone in group A and group B dies. Not supporting genocide doesn't end the genocide. This isn't even the trolley problem because everyone on the side track is also on the main track Harris losing saved no one, and now the additional deaths will start. The performative resistance will be replaced by unlimited support.

    Why do you think all those extra deaths justify your virtue? Don't Support Genocide will exacerbate the very problem it was intended to solve. This is why absolutism is a childish ethical philosophy doomed to failure. Of course genocide is wrong in every circumstance, but your absolutism just enabled the exacerbation of genocide. I hope your ideological purity is worth the annexation of the West Bank, because that's your prize

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  • [+] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)
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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (2 children)

    Profoundly incorrect on all counts. I hope your principles drown out the screams, because those of us with brains and hearts will be screaming with them.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    lol no you won't. you gave the genocide a blank check via biden/harris.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago*

    Biden/Harris were at least nominally seeking a two-state solution. Biden tried to enforce one of his red lines, and Congress asserted their authority to send more weapons anyway.

    Trump loves Netanyahu, will not even nominally advocate for Palestine, and has repeatedly announced his unwavering support of Israel. Palestinian coalitions pleaded that Harris wasn't as bad as Trump for Palestine. The Palestinian I send money to distribute aid said the same thing. The Palestinian-Americans I know with family in Gaza said the same thing.

    Curious how the people actually affected by Israel's genocide seem to be in agreement that harm reduction is paramount, and the terminally online American leftists who won't actually suffer any consequences seem to be the only ones who didn't get the message. Them and the bad faith actors, of course.

    You chose performative virtue signaling over actions that would reduce suffering for the affected parties. You have to live with that, and I hope as Trump helps Bibi "finish the job", it haunts you every night.

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