134
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2024
134 points (98.6% liked)
news
24770 readers
622 users here now
Welcome to c/news! We aim to foster a book-club type environment for discussion and critical analysis of the news. Our policy objectives are:
-
To learn about and discuss meaningful news, analysis and perspectives from around the world, with a focus on news outside the Anglosphere and beyond what is normally seen in corporate media (e.g. anti-imperialist, anti-Zionist, Marxist, Indigenous, LGBTQ, people of colour).
-
To encourage community members to contribute commentary and for others to thoughtfully engage with this material.
-
To support healthy and good faith discussion as comrades, sharpening our analytical skills and helping one another better understand geopolitics.
We ask community members to appreciate the uncertainty inherent in critical analysis of current events, the need to constantly learn, and take part in the community with humility. None of us are the One True Leftist, not even you, the reader.
Newcomm and Newsmega Rules:
The Hexbear Code of Conduct and Terms of Service apply here.
-
Link titles: Please use informative link titles. Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed.
-
Content warnings: Posts on the newscomm and top-level replies on the newsmega should use content warnings appropriately. Please be thoughtful about wording and triggers when describing awful things in post titles.
-
Fake news: No fake news posts ever, including April 1st. Deliberate fake news posting is a bannable offense. If you mistakenly post fake news the mod team may ask you to delete/modify the post or we may delete it ourselves.
-
Link sources: All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. If you are citing a Twitter post as news, please include the Xcancel.com (or another Nitter instance) or at least strip out identifier information from the twitter link. There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance, such as Libredirect or archive them as you would any other reactionary source.
-
Archive sites: We highly encourage use of non-paywalled archive sites (i.e. archive.is, web.archive.org, ghostarchive.org) so that links are widely accessible to the community and so that reactionary sources don’t derive data/ad revenue from Hexbear users. If you see a link without an archive link, please archive it yourself and add it to the thread, ask the OP to fix it, or report to mods. Including text of articles in threads is welcome.
-
Low effort material: Avoid memes/jokes/shitposts in newscomm posts and top-level replies to the newsmega. This kind of content is OK in post replies and in newsmega sub-threads. We encourage the community to balance their contribution of low effort material with effort posts, links to real news/analysis, and meaningful engagement with material posted in the community.
-
American politics: Discussion and effort posts on the (potential) material impacts of American electoral politics is welcome, but the never-ending circus of American Politics© Brought to You by Mountain Dew™ is not welcome. This refers to polling, pundit reactions, electoral horse races, rumors of who might run, etc.
-
Electoralism: Please try to avoid struggle sessions about the value of voting/taking part in the electoral system in the West. c/electoralism is right over there.
-
AI Slop: Don't post AI generated content. Posts about AI race/chip wars/data centers are fine.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Good article, this is a tangential question that i thought while reading it - is there a fundamental difference even worth noting these days between neoliberal and neocon?
Neocon is a subcategory of neoliberal. Neoliberal is a big, overarching political ideology that encompasses Republicans, Democrats, and others. Neocon is a specific movement or trend within the "conservative" wing of neoliberalism.
Right I know that much but my point is whether there's actually a meaningful difference between any of them anymore.
Oh, I misunderstood your question, my bad. I read your wording as suggesting they were separate categories.
To answer your question, I think there's still a paleocon/neocon rift, so there's at least that much to distinguish elements of contemporary neoliberalism, but I think I agree with your implied thesis that the "left" wing of neoliberalism has withered to the point that it's at least quite difficult to distinguish it as having values distinct from one of the further right wing, it just talks about them differently.
Neolibs still want to preserve the "rules based order" in a more literal sense. Neocons want the American Empire and are not afraid to admit it. Neolibs also want it, but tend to believe this is achievable or even already achieved through the liberal world institutions and "globalization"(Marxist imperialism). Wars are not inherently good, despite being profitable, it must not be the first solution and/or it must be justified through these liberal institutions.
So in comparison, neolibs actualy believed in end of history, there are no more true enemies and everyone will eventualy accept the market or bend to economic interests e.g what they believed about China.
Neocons believe that is not enough or not yet and America must continue to fight their strategic enemies. They always saw China and Russia as key strategic enemies where the only solution is domination, they're very open about continuing with the Cold war mentality despite Russia's defeat.
When looking at a Trump government I think he wont be able to just impose his neocon idiot wishes without some pushback.
For example the current US military buildup against China is definitely a neocon initiative. Neolibs go along with it because they dare not confront the MIC but they also believe they can dominate China economicaly see CHIPS act, Yellen/Blinken going to China to threaten them with economic consequences and tell them they're wrong. They believe they can outcompete China but first China must play "fair" i.e become a western style economy based on consumption.
Neocons instead want war and real containment no matter the cost. So Trump will have to deal with a lot of western CEOs and investors that understand a significant part of their profits come from China. Neolibs want to contain China but don't necessarily agree with a full war, even more so US illegitimate aggression. Its why Taiwan is the "key", its the bait.
To give a better example, Musk loves Trump but he will also go to China and praise China. Why?
Because he understands China was one of his biggest market. Neolibs don't want to face the real consequences of a global war and global crisis. Money talks.
For neocons it doesn't matter as much as building the American Empire, an eye for an eye as long as the US wins in Asia it will be worth it, they fear to be missing the opportunity.
I've heard self-described neo-liberals praise neocons by saying "neocons fight wars to make the world safe for neoliberalism". The difference between the 2 does not exist and even the neolibs/neocons don't think it meaningfully exists. As best, they could be said to have different immediate priorities.