this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
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How is Doom only in tenth place and the original Half-Life isn't even close to top (edit: I just checked, Half-Life isn't even on the list).
They set a rule that only one game from a series can be on the list. Half-Life 2 probably just beat 1 in the very subjective scoring.
Nah - Doom (DOS): and Doom Eternal are on there, as are Baldur's Gates 2 and 3.
the list also has morrowind and skyrim
True. They did mention Doom and Doom: Eternal as being different enough to warrant both. Don't think that is true for BG2 and BG3 though
On the other hand, how is doom even on the list? This isn't a 'most influential games' list. Surely the 10th best game in 2024 isn't Doom 1993? Their scoring system (Quality 60%, Importance 15%, Hotness 15%, Playability 10%) makes sense to me, but how they assign those scores is baffling.
Take doom and doom eternal for example:
Doom 1993: Q 8.41 - I 9.99 - H 6.81 - P 6.81
Doom eternal: Q 8.00 - 7.45 - H 6.09 - P 8.45
How is cardboard enemies, simplest damage mechanics, story made of 2 still pictures and exposition text, and single axis camera control higher quality than any modern shooter? And in what universe could a 30 year old game be called hot??
Quick question: have you played original Doom?
It's grossly overrated
In which aspects?
I think the level design holds up incredibly well, and in fact is an example of what to do. It's also not overencumbered by modern bloat.
Have you played it?
Yes?
You sound unsure.
What are your specific feelings on Knee Deep in the Dead level design? Do you enjoy inventory management?
What're your views on original Super Mario?
I meant it as "yes why did you ask?"
I don't have strong feelings about level design. I think the levels I enjoyed the most were in other episodes. If this is about the keys I'm neutral about them, I like exploring everywhere anyways so I'd just collect them on the way. I don't know what else to say
I feel the same way for smb. It has historical importance but it's not up to the quality standards of today. I like the digital movement, feels better than the analogue stick in nwerer games
That's fair.
I'm a massive nerd for level design, and in my mind massive sprawling (especially proceedurally generated) maps/levels are a scourge on modern gaming.
I don't think it's hugely controversial, but I view E1M1 as possibly one of the best levels ever designed. But then again I also view Doom as more like a dungeon crawler RPG that just happens to be first person and real time, so who knows?
I think I also tend to be more into simpler games than ones with too many bolted on systems, which might also be why I tend to favour older ones (or indie ones).
Maybe that's the point? Newer Doom games aren't especially top tier FPSs, and you can find better examples of them (Bioshock (not so modern anymore), the alien-dinosaur-robot spaceship thing, and probably others). So they don't make the list, and then Doom holds the classic place and genre defining status. (Hexen and Strife were never gonna make the list).
I agree that Super Mario Bros could do with a new lick of paint (and think Nintendo has given it more than a few of them) to bring it up to par. Doom, I'm less sure needs updated graphics, but I don't think it'd hurt if it kept everything else the same.
(Favourite Doom levels are probably E1M8, E2M9, and some D2 and TNT and Plutonia levels I can't call to mind off the top of my head.)
I've come to the conclusion I'm incredibly biased on this matter and also that you're entitled to your own opinion, and appreciate that you've responded kindly and patiently.
I see, I don't consciously think about the map/level design when playing something so my opinion of doom comes from its mechanics and presentation, both of which are lacking in comparison to what indie boomer shooters have today.
I don't know if I played it wrong or something but I really didn't like bioshock 1. It lasted like twice as long as it was fun and as time passed enemies just got spongier. Ammo is super scarce in the beginning and super common at the end. Shooting not very satisfying. The existence of the elemental gun. Bioshock 2 was much better imo
The modding scene keeps it hot
Maybe they keep it fresh for people that already like it, but I haven't seen anyone excited to play doom due to its mods
Fools that don't know what they're missing!