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Hot Take: it's actually a good thing that AES states don't allow evangelical proselytising (hexbear.net)

submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I went to Vietnam a couple times. If you hang out downtown in the city, you might get a random Jehovah's Witness or Seventh Day Adventist* try to chat you up. "Oh, we can't do missionary work out in the open, so we just do one-on-one conversations like this". Despite the lack of "Jesus saves, die sinner" signs in Hanoi, you can definitely find Catholic and Protestant churches in Vietnam.

The Western press likes to piss and moan about settler nation missionaries that go, without proper visas mind you, to spread their Western versions of Christianity to the DPRK, only to get deported. So am I allowed to enter a white people country without a visa to stir up trouble and expect no consequences???

I'm the furthest thing from an expert on Myanmar. I get everything I know from Burmese friends. But if you look into the minority people situation, many of them are being heavily proselytised by the worst of the Amerikan type. I don't want the Pat Robertson's the world anywhere near struggling people.

*I'm definitely not saying that JWs and SDAs are anywhere near the worst as Christian sects go.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I guess it goes back to whether you think worship is an inherent part of the human condition. If we broadly agree with worship -> collective worship -> organized religion, then communism would have to negate the impulse towards worship somehow. I'm not sure how you would get rid of worship. I would imagine that at a minimum, humanity would have to no longer fear their mortality and no longer feel anguish over other people's deaths. So it's not enough that you no longer fear death but you also no longer feel anguish other people's death to the point where you would resort to coping mechanisms to process their deaths.

It's not enough that material conditions get better for people to no longer fear death. In fact, I think it's the exact opposite. As material conditions get better, people will have a greater sense of attachment and ownership over their material surroundings and a corresponding greater existential anxiety towards death which will be seen as an event that robs people of experiencing this wonderful material world. In other words, I believe there's a contradiction between humanity creating heaven on Earth through communism and humanity's understanding of death as robbing people of experiencing heaven on Earth. One form of cope would of course be a spiritual heaven that's a mirror of material heaven.

I believe the general chain is fear of death/anguish over death -> worship as cope over the inevitability and painfulness of death -> collective worship -> organized religion. And I have absolutely no clue how humanity would get over death or whether it's entirely possible. I don't mean individuals but humanity as a collective whole. The only thing I could think of is some kind of transhumanism where (trans)humans can't die. There would be no point in believing in a heaven or a soul if you can't even get to heaven and your soul will never separate from your body by virtue of not dying. But this is complete speculation verging on worldbuilding of some fictional scifantasy world at this point.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

then communism would have to negate the impulse towards worship somehow. I’m not sure how you would get rid of worship.

Pretty much the same problem how would you get rid of other similar elements of superstructure, like petty-bourgeoisie sentiments. I guess time, propaganda and education but Lenin not for nothing said it's the hardest part of revolution. Again this is something we have to yet develop methods, but i don't see why it's impossible. I guess easiest would be to canalise that into something else - funnily enough you can see capitalism doing that very successfully by destroying the traditional societal values and structures and canalising and weakening the worship into various other targets. Of course we should strive to be way better than that, but i just use it as example that it is possible when the ruling class ideas are in non-priestly hands.

I would imagine that at a minimum, humanity would have to no longer fear their mortality and no longer feel anguish over other people’s deaths. So it’s not enough that you no longer fear death but you also no longer feel anguish other people’s death to the point where you would resort to coping mechanisms to process their deaths.

I don't think that is even very relevant? I know plenty of people and there were a lot of them historically, especially communists, which didn't reacted with worship to fear of death. It's more that the death is completely relegated to the hands of priests so there is barely any alternatives. In this case creating classless society where people live without fear and alienation would probably take care of most of it by itself.

It’s not enough that material conditions get better for people to no longer fear death. In fact, I think it’s the exact opposite. As material conditions get better, people will have a greater sense of attachment and ownership over their material surroundings

Is that even supported by any research? Sound like something Moliere criticised in his play or an argument to "human nature" like greed is good and eternal etc. If that's your personal experience from people around you, you might consider changing your surroundings.

I won't comment on the rest because it is pure speculation going even further than the idea of classless society. We have more pressing concerns like how to stop the christofash and their cassock overlords.

But this is complete speculation verging on worldbuilding of some fictional scifantasy world at this point.

Yeah