this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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Hamas says guard who killed Israeli hostage acted 'in revenge' against group's instructions (www.reuters.com)
submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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CAIRO, Aug 15 (Reuters) - A Hamas guard who killed an Israeli hostage acted "in revenge" and against instructions after he heard news that his two children had been killed in an Israeli strike, a spokesperson for the group's armed wing said on Thursday.

"The (Hamas) soldier assigned as a guard acted in a retaliatory manner, against instructions, after he received information that his two children were martyred in one of the massacres conducted by the enemy," Abu Ubaida said on Telegram.

"The incident doesn't represent our ethics and the instructions of our religion in dealing with captives. We will reinforce the instructions," he added.

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Inevitable for some soldiers to go against instructions. Can't imagine what it's like to hear your two children have been killed...

[–] [email protected] 90 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Hamas had a whole investigation and remediation in the space of days, in the middle of a war zone. Meanwhile we're still waiting to find out who killed Shireen Abu Akleh over 2 years ago.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Keep in mind it's always possible that they do this partly for PR. But at least they were transparent, even if they did in to look good. After all, next to Israel, anyone would look good.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

No Israeli hostages so far suffered injuries from their guards while put in captivity. This incident was the exception.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Except for that were raped, but I guess since they're Israeli, that doesn't count?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Imaginary rape does not count. Not even when they are Israeli.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I think there probably were some? Pretty sure some released hostages described abuse and sexual assault.

I hate Hamas, as a Palestinian, but Hamas fighters are not demons... they are not angels either.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Whereas there are a multitude of reliable sources citing Israelis forces torturing and raping Palestinian prisoners until death. Not isolated incidents, but a multitude of seperate situations.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I never denied that and nothing I said points to anything against that. Some Hamas fighters still raped and abused some captives. This is reality. These people also have the right to have their story heard because it's just one part of the truth.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Cite the sexual abuse stuff from a reputable source, or edit your comment.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Before I do that can I say this?

I guess what you mean to ask is: was this part of the NYT report or not? Is that right?

And also, I agree that much of that report was BS, but is that enough to discredit every single story in it? You may pretty well be denying rapes that did take place. I have no reason to deny the testimonies of some of these women. Hamas fighters are not angels and it would be quite naive to assume that no rape happened. What I said does not suggest that Hamas carries out systematic rape. Maybe that is a claim more worth your time to moderate than "some victims came out and spoke out about sexual assault during captivity."

But if this is how things roll in this community then just ban me 😉

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Here is a very long article discrediting the entire NYT article https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

One started making claims of sexual assault 100 days after her release in the day 50 prisoner swap.

It was mentioned released hostages are pressured by the Israeli government into making false confessions. They tell them if they lie there will be more pressure on Hamas to release other hostages.

No physical signs of any abuse was found.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Thanks for pointing that out. No denying this. Is this about Amit Soussanna? Would be curious to see a timeline for that. But also as a rape victim myself, it took me years to finally come out and tell my parents what had happened. It's possible that she is lying, but also possible that she is saying he truth. It doesn't say anything politically about Hamas or Palestinians... it's just a thing that is likely to have happened.

The thing is, it would also be naive to assume that no sexual assault or abuse happeend. Even Hezbollah (a much more disciplined army) will have cases like that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Rape happens all the time in war, but you're claiming it is happening in a particular instance so I'm gonna need you to cite that or edit the comment.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Sexual assault: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl/index.html

Abuse: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hostages-held-hamas-describe-life-was-captivity-rcna126781

Do you hound everyone for citations or only in this case? Do you want proof that these people have had these testimonies or that these things actually happened?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Theyre literally citing the new York times, I asked for credible sources regarding the SA claim.

I do when there is a risk of atrocity propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just because there are problems with the NYT does not mean this particular story is not credible. This woman is simply sharing her experinece. What evidence do you have to refute the claims of a rape victim? Should she not be taken as seriously as any other rape victim? Just because Israel can take advantage of such a story to justify genocide does not mean we can discredit the story without being intellectually dishonest.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I asked for a credible source for multiple assaults and you gave me one story from the NYT.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It's fine just go ahead and ban me because I won't edit anything. I provided two articles about captives and their experience having been held hostage by Hamas, they list multiple instances. I have no time for bs like this.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Amit never claimed she was raped. She claimed she was groped after changing her story quite a few times, each time becoming more extreme.

There is no doubt Israel would have loved her confession when she was released at the 50 day exchange. I cannot imagine them not asking her about it.

Hamas was wearing body cams during Al Aqsa flood. Despite rape being a common Israeli practice there is no shred of evidence to suggest Hamas raped anyone. The official UN report on war crimes stated no evidence of any rape by Hamas was found.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

I highly doubt this was against instructions.