this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2024
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Red line (lemmy.world)
submitted 4 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 169 points 4 months ago (1 children)

members of the military directed pepper spray at the military police who came to detain the soldiers.

Holy shit! It's one thing when fascist politicians and their other brainwashed supporters resist justice, but when soldiers attack soldiers, "potential civil war" isn't even hyperbole anymore!

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (2 children)

In a country where almost all 18-21 year olds are in the army, you will have shit like that

[–] [email protected] 61 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Swiss here

No you don't

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You need to rival people up by starting a mass genocide first. No one wants to have a war in Switzerland anyway, it's too hilly.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderbund_War

An outcropping of the 30 Years War that ended with Swiss federalization. Helps when you have sharp political divides (in that case, Protestants killing Catholics) and young people driven to pick sides.

Israel is, similarly, experiencing sharp internal religious division between Reform Zionists and Orthodox branches.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Got anything more recent than 1847?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Nothing so dramatic as an outright civil war. But there's definitely a rising tide of youth violence which is reflected in an increasingly popular Swiss nationalist party.

Several shop windows and a shop door were broken, while officers dispersed youths who threw paving stones and a Molotov cocktail at them, police said. They detained six people ages 15 to 17 — three girls and three boys, with Portuguese, Somali, Bosnian, Swiss, Georgian and Serbian citizenship — and a 24-year-old Swiss man.

This is in direct response to clashes between Swiss officials and migrant communities. Disparities between religious groups (in this case Christians and Muslims) are sparking more conflicts across the country.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Hey, I actually did a dissertation on that, so I am fairly informed to talk about this topic!

So few words, yet so many corrections.

  1. Not an outcrop of the 30 years war, a consequence of the 1830 french revolution.
  2. has nothing to do with protestants killing catholics. Was a war between progressive democratic unitarian forces wanting a democratic, united switzerland and conservative oligarchic federalists wanting independent Cantons. The killing of Leu was just the spark that ignited the war. It is really important that you understand that this was NOT a religious conflict but instead a political one. I can explain you why it wasn't a religious war in more detail in a seperate comment, but I'll leave it at that for now.
  3. Not sure how that applies here at all. The soldiers did exactly what they were ordered to do by their corresponding politicians. No soldier behaved in a way that wasn't expected of him, Whereas here Soldiers defied their respective authority, which is what we are discussing.

and famously, this underlines my point about conscription fostering unity, the Tagsatzung always said that the soldiers of the Sonderbund were "eusi Brüedere" (our brothers), refused to use explosive ammo etc. (I could go on and on: Duffour refused to launch a surprise attack that would have been 100% successful to instead gamble and give them the opportunity to surrender because they didn't want to hurt their brothers. It went that far that radicals said he cared more about the lives of the Sonderbund than about the lives of the Tagsatzung)

All in all, less than 100 people died during this 3-week war and the country united again very quickly after it was over.

Regarding Israel: Like I said, I am from switzerland. I don't really know much on Israeli powerstruggles. All I know is: In Israel there are two groups of people.

  1. Religious Zealots that came there because of religion
  2. Jews that had to flee because of their religion and found refuge in Israel. Fleeing from their bad past in Germany but also because they were being exiled by all the Arab Countries. Group 1 tends to support Nettanyahu, Group 2 tends not to. Although Group 2 also started electing him after a series of terror-attacks on Israel.

And now before some asshole comes in: I do know a bit more about Israeli politics, but not more about its powerstruggles.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

It's almost like universal conscription is a bad idea that negatively affects people!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

On the other hand - who can resist free labor?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

Fascists famously can't, so it's very much in character for the regime.