To reiterate my point a last time because if you don't read my comments, I don't interact with you much further:

You are attacking the strawman that veganism is about never ever using wool. That's not what veganism is about. Veganism is about reducing suffering which in the current moment means not buying animal products. This doesn't mean that vegans won't use animal products in a hypothetical situation. And "Imagine tomorrow everyone turns vegan" is a hypothetical situation. Coming up with a hypothetical situation in which it is ethical for vegans to use animal products doesn't prove anything but that your strawman is irrational. Veganism is about harm reduction. This translates to not using animal products in the current moment but not as an absolute. Treating it as an absolute is a strawman. I brought up freegan because it's an example where even today, eating animal products can be ethical within a vegan framework.

My argument continues that once you find yourself is a "messed up situation", the question becomes more nuanced. In such a situation, the definition of veganism as harm reduction becomes more prominent than the derived idea "we shouldn't buy animal products". Clinging to that would be irrational but, again, it would be a strawman.

And it doesn't matter how this messed up situation came to be. I didn't say take a time machine and prevent the messed up situation. I said in a messed up situation, the vegan principals manifest in a different way.

I asked about using wool that you gain from the sheep because you're shearing them for their wellbeing.

To directly answer this: my argument is that in this "messed up situation" that we domesticated sheep and bred it to this state, and the "hypothetical situation" that every single person turns vegan tomorrow, the idea "not using animal products will reduce suffering" doesn't apply and the more general idea of reducing suffering manifests in a different way. But I give you that: I shouldn't have bring but not non vegans bred them. It didn't really contribute to my argument but gave you the opportunity to engaged with that instead of my argument. I should have seen that coming.

And I wasn't talking about the UK. I was talking about the fact that wolves do come back in Germany in a natural way from further East and I think other parts of central Europe as well, and hunters lobby for killing them.

But you're saying your ideology says it's better for deer to suffer than just die without even being able to realise it?

Would you argue for killing predators in their natural habitat because they would kill prey if you don't? That's a strange utilitarian idea.

And there is certainly more to it. A biologist explained to me that deer find food in the fields and in a natural habitat without this food source, their population would be much smaller. Is the solution to ban agricultural next to forests? I don't know. But I think there are better ways to interact with nature.

And about Pluribus: Rewatch the episode to get the harvest robots thing (it wasn't suggested by the hive mind and it didn't like it) but my point was that the hive mind has nothing to do with veganism. If read as an allegory for it, it's an even weaker strawman than yours. Again, I shouldn't have bring it up because now you focus on that instead of what my point was.

Both are variations of: "The animal is already dead and on your plate, you either eat it or we'll throw it away which would be wasteful". Something very unvegan happened. You are in a messed up situation that would never have happened if veganism was consistently applied. And there are different answers to this in different situations but none debunk veganism's consistency because it's already not consistently applied.

In these cases, a second definition of veganism works better which is to reduce harm. This is in line with eating animal products that are already thrown away (look up freegan) but in other cases, demanding a vegan option and throwing away what was prepared for you, might break the cycle and next time, there will be more vegan options. It, again, depends on the situation.

Now to your "arguments": Guess who bred sheep into their current form? Certainly not vegans. So dealing with this messed up situation doesn't disprove veganism's consistency. Now that the child already fell into the well (which is a German proverb that might not translate into English as well), we need harm reduction which is the vegan thing to do. It is a worth while thought experiment when engaged in good faith but not the gotcha you think it is.

In the current moment, buying wool will increase the demand for it and therefore isn't vegan. But there are also vegans who rescue animals that would otherwise be slaughtered and give them the best life possible. Both happens today within the ethical framework of veganism which is at the end about harm reduction. You are attacking a strawman.

And, o deer, your other example. Humans changed the environment by exterminating all wolves in an area. The consistently vegan thing to do would be (you guessed it, maybe you didn't) not exterminating all the wolves in the first place. The second best thing is to undo the unvegan thing and restore the natural state by reintroducing wolves to their natural habitat which demonstrably works where is was applied. The thing that actually happens in Europe is that wolves are shot where they come back so hunters can have the deer.

And you should not take works of fiction as facts and even if, you should pay more attention:

Anybody working on enshitification of Lemmy pls?

That's why I'm consistent and live vegan

Thanks! This makes much more sense and is easy to read and not distracting

This is a bit off topic but the design just makes no sense to me. It's not consistent what blue and green stands for, the two lines meet at the end and where is the dashed line coming from?

Glad to hear that! It's always fun to discover new songs

Took me a while and I'm still not sure but I think this one it is

*thank you're

Who domesticated whom?

Jokes on you, I never said I knew you

and therefore only see the two options of destroying the environment or going back to the Neolithic.