like so many of these allegations when u really think about it defy physics / basically living in the material world and not just RFA fantasies

i wrote this before in a bigger comment about completely baseless lib beliefs, but here

all of this is so flimsy and apart from how much i fucking loathe idealism as wool over the eyes to the nature of this neoliberal nightmare we inhabit, i genuinely cannot express enough how it is hilarious how liberals do not realize that a lot of their ideology is predicated on the idea that other humans do not have the same internality as them, the same social darwinism/backwards racial ideology that was typical of the expressly colonial slaveowning era.

ask one liberal how all of DPRK can simply bend over and take it while starving without actual reason to admire or want to retain the WPK, while the DPRK also struggles with infrastructure to feed itself much less totally 1894 surveil or clamp down on the state, (ETA: PLUS the equally virulently censoring west has never implemented such beyond the pale technologies) and they can create you a fantasy story out of nowhere to justify this conclusion--social democracy being the moderate wing of fascism is a hilarious left field radical idea to them, but just observe the way they think culturally, even outside of their ideal economic model, and you'll realize these people genuinely fail to believe the Asiatic hordes of the Chinese and Koreans (or the Eurasian Mongoloid Russians) have sapience, or that two groups can in fact engage in fair exchange that doesn't include exploitation or genocide as Western powers are wont to do (chinese debt-trap diplomacy myth), or even be a multiethnic society without braying for complete extermination of others (uyghurs in xinjiang and those from xizang)

honestly this is the same thing as saying theyre using the eye of sauron to magically know if ur having dissenting thoughts brother get your head in the fuckiing GAME!! /nay (not at you)

(edited becoz i worry it sounds mean but i really admire you for your patience)

these would be people that simply cannot interact with reality, so high on their own supply of propaganda. first of all. london is smaller than china. by... quite a lot. so it makes sense that there would be less cameras in london than in china. like i dont know if they meant beijing but they understand china is a region, right?

secondly well surveillance isn't ontologically bad. if their allegation is that if the evil chinese cameras will explode anyone who so much sneezes weird you can just be like "i don't know if you're actually living in reality with the rest of us." because they don't really have any evidence to that claim, the burden of proof is on them unless theyre ogling to say No information escapes china which is fucking ludicrous and proves they truly cannot conceive of people outside west as human beings with agency. sorry im not mad at u im mad at them. which is funny bc theyre rhetorical in this instance.

(+ yanks have secret police just like us, + palantir + snowden whistleblowing case. so it's throwing stones from a glass house. either way i'd rather have these powers in the hands of state cracking down on anti-people reactionaries and not, you know, the overlords of capital)

this is distracting us from the--oh wait

tank u bro pero wala masyadong activity kek

girl whose heart literally shakes and pulses weirdly when she gets mad at anticommunist talking points voice: yeah i mean like im normal and im happy and im not going crazy at all why do u ask

sometimes it's safe to disengage friend, not saying this disparagingly you tried all you could but it's also a maddening dialogue that often ends in nothing gained and all your energy lost, until the day westerners suffer a fraction of the imperial periphery will they actually realize that capitalism is an inherently evil and doomed system (which they can insult in minor ways all they want while disparaging any alternative, since they still have more to gain by keeping it around in the short term) and stop defending it so instinctively

honestly i think these are fairly easy!!!! like we can get into nuance and parts to critique about AES but youre talking about people who literally cannot fathom getting to a place where they can talk about AES like they're actual things and not just the embodiment of evil or sin

1. constant siege/sanctions/blockades. even if they cite dissolution of ussr it's simpler at this point (before getting into things like revisionists) just to say, china IS a communist state that has survived till now, compliant to socialist theory. they'll be like BUT IT HAS MARKETS at which point you can tell them that it's not just communist button/egalitarianism/any similar vulgar mischaracterization or simplification and then you can explain what ML theory actually entails. you could also get to other AES but china is the easiest gate as an undeniably successful project at this point

2. so what? i mean, that's reductive, but first of all they probably mean stalin era ussr, dprk, etc. or any other example that's usually been mythologized. hell, people dont even think dprk is a place that exists in reality, only in a far off universe that produces fantasy stories for westerners to jerk off to.

it's been very clear since october 7 that all pretense of free speech in the west is farcical, but regardless let's look at the situations for each. ussr was literally under siege by nazis who wanted to exterminate all slavs and then colonize the region, THEN found itself in a cold war with the west who both absorbed a bunch of nazis + had crazy espionage campaigns that honestly even as a lib little kid i knew about. they were proclaimed ideological enemies of the ussr! they were of course going to be on their guard, only so long after the war and with such suspicious ties to the nazi leaders. again if u get them to this level u have a chance to explain capitalism and fascism being an integral part of it but youre focusing on the most blatant historical myths, this at least helps contextualize this before u can introduce theory

and there have been marked examples of color revolutions that destabilize + harm regions in long run, usamerican plants (they will scoff at you as conspiratorial but beg them to look past their blindness that they have gotten from believing they are the only ones free of all propaganda [which isnt ontologically good or bad]) that have existed and we have SEEN!!! like that one girl begging for an invasion of iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

of course there is going to be censorship! there have been people that speak out 'on behalf of the country' that beg for regime change!! so censorship then occurs to protect the country!! is it ideal? fuck no!! is it what other states (like DOTBs) do? yes!! does this equate them morally to DOTBs? no because measure the results first!! two countries can use the same means for different ends, like how a gun in the hand of a nazi was not the same as a gun in the hand of a red army soldier!! if you want to eliminate censorship still first you must remove those who place them under siege + endanger them. if they're like 'all censorship is ontologically bad' you simply must just question this the same way you question the idea that all hierarchies are ontologically evil and not just natural!!! ask them how they think things like CSAM should be cracked down on!!! how they probably would and SHOULD endorse censorship in many fields!! free exchange of ideas should preclude totally nonsensical and antisocial and evil ideologies like fascism/racial ideology!!!!!!

for many this will be backbreaking since they worship the ideas of rights that can never be infringed, but it honestly turned around for me just thinking about the alternatives, connected to the previous point. yes i could finally admit to myself censorship was needed in spaces, even in conjunction with restorative justice! things should be taken down and some evil things that can harm a country should be repressed lest they turn out inciting violence or causing a deeply detrimental regime change as so many of these people fiend for!!!

how many in collapsed socialist states have suffered more under new neolib regime?? we know this!! looking at russia alone post-ussr dissolution is proof of that but i digress!! how many eastern europeans prostituted themselves, children, the tweet 'sadness in his eyes you can only see in eastern european gay porn' is not that funny when you realize it's fucking coercive by nature otherwise he'll fucking STARVE. that may be too much humanization of evil eurasian orcs for one day, though!!!! don't scare them away by asking them to please imagine russians/slavs (well chinese and dprkoreans too but i truly ardently believe china is now an easier sell) as humans and not drones!!!!!!

3. this is bullshit completely dependent on ignoring anything from or about china. you can safely disengage.

this is still half untrue, honestly, it's simply thought-termination and undying loyalty to western bourgeois rags under the impression this somehow passes as free press. first of all, on the purely global level?? never has china invaded another country since that minor fiasco with vietnam and since mao their foreign policy has been (to the point of criticism for many MLs/leftists) very lenient. they have never been particularly violent or exploitative, and again if we're comparing to the satanic state of the usa it still isn't a comparison to anyone remotely aware of what usamerikkka has even done, iraq war, afghanistan, vietnam, backing israel, etc. etc., and most allusions to this are myths that are beyond the pale (fucking go to xizang! they must look at what xizang was before the war instead of reading pedophile theocrats whine about how they cant enslave/skin women and kids anymore!! or xinjiang it's fucking crazy!!!) or misconstruing real foreign policy that actually benefits people (so called debt trap diplomacy is as flimsy as paper) i just!!!! IT'S FUCKING USA!! as soon as u show them what USA DOES this point is toilet paper!!

this is the community ive been hoping for. kimchi is one of the greatest concoctions in this whole wide world

plus u can just undelete later with progress still there and u can even edit it while deleted so that it's only released when u really think the sentiment is expressed properly

i deleted the comment since it was still a wip and i hadnt got back to my laptop. i dont rlly have a sense usually for what is seen as awkward online or irl

i’ve been to laos. lovely and small and hardy country, each time i hear anything about it wrt prc i’m pleased