every time i see a "leftist" talk about not voting for biden, and thus supporting trump...
this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2024
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Agreed in the general election.
Strong disagree for primaries.
Primaries are for voting with your heart, the general is for voting strategically
Primaries are for pretending we’re a functioning democracy. The general is for acceptance.
My local district flipped blue for the first time in decades, local elections and primaries are very important
I'm sorry, it's probably considered some sort of a smug European truism by now, but I have to say it. There is no left in the US two-party system. It's right or center-right, that's the choices you have, a giant douche or a turd sandwich.
used to be... now it's fascism vs. center-right
More like right wing fascism vs neoliberal fascism.
Is it really center-right? I think it is more far right and facist extreme right. Atleast when observed from scandinavia
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If Biden wanted my vote he could simply stop supporting genocide. Really quite a low bar for him to clear.
There's "holding your nose" and there's voting for someone actively aiding a genocide.
there's "administration aiding a genocide, but also doing so because they're being lied to by israel, who also has a massive propaganda campaign to manipulate americans into supporting them..."
versus
Project 2025 and their plans of a fascist dictatorship right here, complete with a genocide of trans people and hispanics... and muslims... AND a continuation of supporting israel...
oh and aiding russians commiting genocide in ukraine.
voting trump in won't save palestine, and it'll make it soo so much worse
no one is proposing voting for trump here
Not voting is letting trump have an easier time at victory
I'd prefer he had the hardest time imaginable
Not voting is letting trump have an easier time at victory
The core of the GOP's strategy for holding on to power is the disenfranchisement of voters who are opposed to them. Not voting (or voting third party) is self-disenfranchisement and doing the GOP's work for them.
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What happens in a FPTP system with only 2 viable parties when everyone doesn't vote for the least maniacal of the two?
Who do you think wins that bout?
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Do you really believe not voting for Biden deceases the likelihood of genocide in Gaza? Because the alternative seems so much worse in every way, both for Gaza and so many other massively important issues
You are on a different and better level. You are a Chad consequentialist. Managing probabilities, shooting for the best outcomes, minimizing losses. Setting up the group of ideologically aligned leaders for future success. Fighting off fascism for four more years against all odds.
They are a weak feelings voter. Hopes Biden senpai will notice them and throwing a temper tantrum when he doesn't. Talks about genocide, but doesn't actually care if Trump will handle the genocide any differently than Biden. Wants everyone else to suffer because they are suffering. Hoping if Trump gets elected that someone else will do the hard work and fighting to fix everything. Is burned out on politics, but instead of not voting quietly, makes big posts about how not voting is actually a good and very smart idea because they can't handle the fact that they need to rest.
I'm not voting for someone who's pro genocide, sorry.
And instead, a genocide will still be on, and also more women will go to prison for seeking medical care, and also my LGBT friends will have their rights eroded even more, and also the new president will annoint more christofascist Godkings to the Supreme Court ensuring that any attempt to vote for an actual leftist in the future is impossible, and it'll be fine, because at least you didn't vote for the guy that wouldn't have done all that extra awful shit
A vote is not an endorsement, stop treating it like it is.
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I'm not asking you to. I asked if you truly think things will be better when you don't?
cool bud, then you'll get someone who's pro genocide anyway. what a difference you made.
At least their conscience will be clean when our trans brothers and sisters are rounded up for extermination.
Biden isn't pro genocide, at least there is no evidence to say that. The Biden administration has been against the ground invasion from the start.
Biden has made some missteps in my opinion, but America pulling support for Israel was never a real option. Israel does require aid, but Netanyaho doesn't care if that aid comes from the US, or from his buddy Putin. Israel realigning with Russia would put Palestine in an even worse position because it would threaten their support from Iran.
Then, of course, there is the risk of a regional war breaking out of Iran takes the strained relationship between the US and Israel as an opportunity. That could easily pull other countries in and become WW3.
Foreign policy is about more than just virtue signaling. It's outcomes that matter, and what a lot of people are calling for will not get them the outcomes they are looking for.
Not that I'm shaming anyone for pressuring Biden. The positive movement on aid shipments was very likely helped along by the protest votes in Michigan.
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And I'm sure letting trump have an easier time getting elected will make things so much better.
I would recommend talking to your local representatives about the current situation and how important it is to you and expressing how you may support other people running against them if they don't support a ceasefire.
Local elections are really important.
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Our voting system sucks
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Accelerationism is literally foreign propaganda, and has its roots in a few European leftists that had their views hijacked as a way of pushing radicalisation to status quo liberals.
It's literally nonsense, and the equivalent of Christian Zionism / eschatology in that it's a set of incredibly harmful, baseless beliefs that advocate for mass misery in the name of vague hope of an accelerated magical delivery of human kind to a new era of happiness and joy.
The US is well past the point where radicalization is an unreasonable response. It's radicalization paired with stupidity that's a problem, and that's what we have with the accelerationists and MAGA.
I used to know a poli-sci researcher who was trying to take a big-data look at the success and failure of revolutions, taking in variables like "how many demonstrators rallied against the government?" "How many dissidents were disappeared by internal security forces?" and even things like "how many bullet holes are there on the buildings around the main protest venue in the capital?"
I asked him once if he'd discovered the secret to a successful revolution, and he just grimaced at me.
I love how people take the Soviet revolution as some sort of example of success, when what actually happened was that the original government collapsed because it was getting the shit kicked out of it by Germany, then a new government took over and got the shit kicked out it of by Germany before also collapsing, then the Bolsheviks strolled into literally empty government buildings and took over - against the judgement of most of the Bolsheviks who still thought the time wasn't right to take over. Hardly a replicable or generalizable sequence of events.
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North Korea 2024
People don't seem to realize, as it becomes easier to automate and maintain oppressive systems, the more scarce that democracy will be. Ask Russians.
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You're trying to read too much into this.
When the state doesn't work for enough people anymore, it collapses into fascism. It always does. Unless it collapses to foreign forces of course.
Accelerationism at this point is merely an argument for liberals to convince people who are not fascists to support their liberalism as a lesser danger.
It won't work. Liberalism will have to do something, not the people who don't believe the bullshit anymore. And interestingly, throughout history, liberals always choose fascism over anything else that would remove them some power.
So don't pretend it's up to the leftists to choose. You, the liberals, did this to the world. Time to open your eyes.
Liberalism is responsible for this fascist doom, not the left. That's not only true for the US. That's also true for all of Europe. Liberals vanquished the left. Now is the time to fight fascism. That's what you earned. The left will fight. Will the liberals do it?
Accelerationism at this point is merely an argument for liberals to convince people who are not fascists to support their liberalism as a lesser danger.
You make me mad. You make me mad because you've deluded yourself into believing fatalistic death cult BS, willing to drag other people down with you. Liberals might be deluded and wrong, but you're honestly worse. Liberals are more open minded than you, more hopeful than you, and believe in building a popular coalition. I don't care if you recognize capitalism is bad, you're not helping anyone do anything about it.
"Eat shit and die" is what I'm hearing from your empty justifications for inaction. I've barely started living my life, and you're saying "it just needs to end. Sorry. Nothing to be done." I like my life, unlike you apparently, so I'm going to reject your ideas emphatically.
Fuck your opinion. Just like fascist dribble, it deserves no respect.
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It's necessary to hold two truths: liberalism always leads to fascism and accelerationism does not prevent fascism. So one should both delay the inevitability of fascism by participating in liberal democracy and do everything possible to make liberal democracy unnecessary as quickly as possible before the collapse.
The thing that can be especially hard for some people to understand is that not everyone experiences fascism at the same time. It's not a switch. It's a decline. Some people have been expecting fascism for decades or generations now. So people will be at different places in terms of interacting with the system. We are all trying to survive. We need as much time as possible to build a resistence movement, but, at the same time, no matter what compromises we get via electoralism those can be destroyed instantly if we only rely on the state to protect them.
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