this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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politics

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72
China’s Electric Vehicles Are Going to Hit Detroit Like a Wrecking Ball (www.nytimes.com)
submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 58 points 8 months ago (2 children)

US car prices have risen massively over the last few years. Dealers just openly list $5000 markups on the sheet.

things are ripe for disruption so the empire is really going to have to ramp up the protectionism.

Perhaps the Big Three deserve destruction; after all, they hooked us on S.U.V.s in the first place and then fell behind in the E.V. race. But letting them die is not a tenable political option for the Biden administration.

but wait I thought "mArKeT fOrCeS WiLl pRoDuCe tHe bEsT oUtCoMeS"??

capitalism only works on paper

[–] [email protected] 25 points 8 months ago (1 children)

And the paper is a damp bar napkin

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

Art Laffer's life story.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

The Yard Sale model makes me think it doesn’t even work on paper.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 8 months ago (2 children)

There are already very high walls of protectionism keeping lots of potentially disruptive imports out of the USA, so I don't expect these to have the impact that NYT thinks they will.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago

The purpose of this article I didn't read is probably to manufacture consent to increase the protectionism.

Subsidies likely won’t be enough; Mr. Biden will need to impose new trade restrictions. But here’s where it gets messy. The case for protecting the American auto market from Chinese E.V.s is obvious, politically essential, but also highly troublesome. In the short term, American automakers — even the homegrown electric-only carmakers like Tesla and Rivian — must be shielded from a wave of cheap cars.

yep

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago

We export $55B in automotive cars and parts annually. If China gets a foothold in Mexico or starts dominating markets in Europe or Indonesia or India, the Americans are in for a lot of pain long term.

There's also a demoralizing effect of foreign countries having better cars than the states. Japan really fucked the American psyche with Toyota's global dominance.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Do we really want America to become a backwater of bloated, expensive, gas-guzzling cars?

porky-happy yes

[–] [email protected] 31 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Is it not already lol

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

They mention it in the article, but the big American auto companies are profitable exclusively because of truck and SUV sales. The question is mainly whether they are able to pivot away from that and how much Biden is willing to protect them from Chinese cars while they try.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

If Biden protects them, they won't need to pivot. They can just coast on market manipulation.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I mean they're already trying, their electric cars are ass but they are making them

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

They're ass because they don't need to try.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago

Who needs competition when you can just make dubious claims of national security risk and ban BYD et al. like they did with Huawei?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

The enemy is both weak and strong

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I'm curious to hear all your thoughts but, will protectionism be immediately necessary with the powers that be not building up the refueling infrastructure that is necessary for electric vehicles? I might be wrong on this, though, so it's always good to hear the input of others.

I can see them doing restrictions on Chinese vehicles for the usual nat-sec justifications or just to score cheap political points through appeals to xenophobia, like with the Tik Tok ban. Maybe they'll have a whole week of news coverage dedicated to it to rile up the boomers before they do it.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don’t think they really care if drivers get stranded with no where to refuel. The oil industry is still very powerful and won’t go anywhere until the earth collapses. Any action against these cars or EVs in general will likely be a result of massive donations (or the threat of withholding them) and everything else will be theater or just a parallel goal.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So they'll just preempt any growth of ev infrastructure by strangling it in the crib. Very ruthless but, not surprising if I think about it a bit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

If it’s any consolation, overproducing EVs and having everyone signing 3 year leases isn’t really much of a mitigation technique.

We need to figure out how to produce less vehicles in general, or at least try to keep old vehicles in circulation longer.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

I would be surprised if we see a Chinese EV for sale in the US this decade.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Ok, I want that to happen, but why aren't Chinese EV already dominating in Europe? BYD has been there since 2021.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

why aren't Chinese EV already dominating in Europe?

Technically they are. Tesla's Shanghai factory is churning out Model Ys and they make up a quarter of the EV market in Europe in 2023.