No, absolutely not. Memory is no substitute for presence.
this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
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How would you know the difference?
Can you not tell the difference between memory and reality?
Don't get me wrong, it would be absolutely incredible having such perfect recall that memories are indistinguishable from the present, I just don't think that's a trait many humans naturally possess.
Given that I rely on my memory to know what happened, no.
How do you know the difference?
The point is not the difference between a fake memory and a real one (let's grant for now that they are undistinguishable) but the fact that positive experiences are worth a lot more than just the memories they leave you with.
I may not know the difference between a memory of an event that I experienced and a memory of an event I didn't experience. Looking back on the past, they're the same.
But each moment of pleasure that I only remember, without having experienced it, was essentially stolen from me. Pleasure is a state of consciousness and only exists in the present.
Prove to me that you actually lived the memories you currently have, and I didn't come into your room and implant them all the moment before you read this post.
(Also, incredibly, username checks out)
The burden of proof is on you there bud.
If you want to make extraordinary claims like "I came into your room and implanted your memories", then you're going to have to provide some evidence for that. I don't need to do anything.
You're also completely missing the point of the original post and my response. There was never any questions about whether memories are real, the question was whether the memory of a thing has the same value as the real time experience of a thing.
(Also, at least I've got a prosthetic brain, you're clearly still on the waiting list :p)
That's the basis of the thought problem though, it cannot be proven one way or the other. Yes, it's an extraordinary claim, but also I would want you to think that, wouldn't I π.
the question was whether the memory of a thing has the same value as the real time experience of a thing.
Neurologically speaking, yes, the brain activity of a person experiencing a thing is indistinguishable from a person recalling the thing. So in all tangibly measurable ways, the answer is yes.
That's a wild question, cause for me and most of the people I know, a fantasy version of myself with double my income would mean not worrying about groceries, maybe a short trip out of the country once a year, being able to pay off debts, and affording some medical procedures that we've been putting off. Maybe saving some money so my kid isn't homeless in a few decades. Not some life of leisure.
To answer your question, though, it would be categorically worse.
This literally happened to me, only I lost way more than half my income.
It's horrible, and frequently remembering the life I had is very painful.
I can't work out what possible upside you think there is to this situation.
Oh god no. Not for any amount of money. What a total mindfuck that would be. Any person you meet, you wouldn't be able to tell if you met them before or if your memory twin did.
You would constantly be questioning everything you see and hear.
Small things would drive you crazy. You distinctly remember going to the grocery store yesterday, so why is the fridge empty again. You swear you washed your clothes yesterday, yet everything is dirty. You remember hearing the doorbell, but no one is there.
Bigger things would make everyone else think you are crazy.
Your best friend who you hang out with every weekend? Nope, your memory twins best friend. Just a casual acquaintance in this reality. And they get more weirded out every time you tell them you had a great time last friday.
You are talking to your wife of 20 years only to realize its not your wife, its your memory twins wife, this version of her doesn't know who you are, and she is panicingly trying to find her mace. The children you love, care for, and have watched grow up doesn't exist in this reality.
Then there is the repeated heartbreak when those people that are the same in both realities diverge in terrifying ways. You remember visiting your mother yesterday, talking to her, telling her you love her, hugging her goodbye. You also remember her dying 10 years ago and know you'll never see her again, except for in memories that keep coming that are not real.
Eventually you would just give up, accepting that you can't keep remebering two lives at once. So you withdraw from society. Lock yourself in a room and slowly wither away as you remember a better life happening right now.
on the next episode of blackmirror. What a great write up, what a dreadful thought
I worked a highly paid career in IT for 35 years. We bought a house, went to the movies whenever we wanted, had lots of nice things. Not super-rich, but upper middle class and very well off.
I was diagnosed with incurable blood cancer (multiple myeloma) in 2020 on the day that COVID lockdowns started in my city. Spent that year not responding to treatment, got tandem stem cell transplants in 2021, after follow-up chemotherapy Iβm now in remission. Still suffering from anterograde amnesia and mental and physical fatigue, not really able to work.
Iβd rather be here than dead, not working is ok. Iβve paid taxes for 35 years to contribute to society, now itβs my turn. Living on savings and welfare, not really leisure, but mostly comfortable.
And thatβs why we have social programs (socialism). Donβt vote anything right of left, and enjoy your retirement!
losing half of my income to imagine a version of myself with the other half of my income? I can do that for free. what on earth is supposed to be the upside here? one that's so great I'm losing half of my money?
Yeah, I don't get this at all. Does OP just... not have an imagination?
It is a reframing of a previous question asked on this sublemmy; the one about the clones.
I thought that my interpretation of that initial question would yield a far negative response, and indeed it did.
I mean yeah. It reads roughly like βYour life just got way worse. But you can think about it and pretend itβs better. Profit?β
The other question framed it like "you've got an indeterminate number of clone slaves like you" and the responses were more mixed than here.
I fail to see how the two questions are related tbh
I'm asking from the perspective of the clone.
Excepting that, presumably, the clone's labor can still produce income. Not for the clone, obviously, since it said "slaves", but "you" would wind up making more money, not just splitting what you already have.
The homeless guy in a box under a bridge has loads of leisure time. So do prisoners.
Leisure time may only be a good time if you're doing something you enjoy while you have it.
So youβd lose half the money with no benefit? No ty
If i divide my income to two people, both are gonna have to seek "leisure" under some bridge.
I dont think you thought this out OP
Hell no, I would just fall into a depression about how good the other me has it and how I can't get there. This would 10000% suck on all levels
Undoubtedly worse.
I would rather spend half my money to let my kid have experiences that they tell me about excitedly at dinner every night.
I already dream about having money every night and I wake up to the stress of poverty. I would rather double my income and have no dreams.
Iβll pay you to take my nightmares.
I donβt have any income at the moment so Iβd take this deal.
But only because Iβm curious what a life of leisure with the exact same material conditions would look like, as alternate me wouldnβt be benefiting any more than actual me would be losing out.
Don't joke about identity theft, Jim, it's a serious crime
OP did you just watch the classic film Total Recall?
Nope. This was just a reframing of a previous question.
Hmm, assuming that it's pre-tax I could pay commited expenses and be left with Β£100 a month for all other expenses including transport (I'd have to sell my car most likely otherwise close to half that would go on insurance and surviving on Β£1.60 a day disposable income would be leagues worse than Β£3.20), food, entertainment and whatever else
You know what, I think I'll take the other half of my income that the taxman doesn't get (so 40 or so % of my actual income when you consider student loan payment thresholds and tax free allowances) and enjoy it myself rather than only being able to dream about it...
I think I'm quite lucky that I could (only marginally) survive if my salary was half what it is, but wtf, did you mean half your disposable income or did you just not think it through?
did you mean half your disposable income or did you just not think it through?
I thought it through. There was a question earlier about making clones that could sync memories. I just reframed the question.