this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
388 points (97.5% liked)

politics

19097 readers
4347 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

• News

• World News

• Business News

• Political Discussion

• Ask Politics

• Military News

• Global Politics

• Moderate Politics

• Progressive Politics

• UK Politics

• Canadian Politics

• Australian Politics

• New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
388
The Republicans Actually Want a Border Crisis (www.messageboxnews.com)
submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
43 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Dan Pfeiffer: “To summarize, Johnson demands a border bill in exchange for passing Ukraine aid; the White House and Senate work on a border bill; Johnson opposes the bill without even seeing it, despite repeatedly declaring that the ‘crisis at the border’ is the House GOP’s top priority.”

“Some commentary suggests that Johnson keeps moving the goalpost to prevent his caucus from having to vote on Ukraine aid, which is vehemently opposed by MAGA Republicans but enthusiastically supported by the Republican establishment and more moderate GOPers. With Johnson in perpetual danger of being McCarthy-ed, I am sure avoiding a tough vote is a factor. However, I think Johnson and the Republicans have another more nefarious reason — they want a crisis at the border to help them in the election.”

all 44 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 87 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, no kidding. They've been offered lots of ways of doing immigration reform and have zero interest. Also, they typically reject the idea of arresting and imprisoning the very top of companies that employ undocumented workers.

If they really meant what they say about how jobs are being "taken" from citizens, wouldn't they back such a thing? It'd be easy to shut down a lot of the employment of undocumented workers. Walk into Tyson or some other big company, arrest those at the very top (not low-level clerks; I'm talking C-suite people) and entertain the idea of REVOKING corporate charters of companies that do this.

All it would take is one extremely high-profile example and it would be a sea change. Do Republicans mean what they say, though? Of course not.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 months ago

They know some industries don't have the labor and would crumble. They only care to the point that people at the bottom have someone to blame for their problems, and its not the ones actually causing harm. The 'they hate the same things as me' party.

[–] [email protected] 81 points 9 months ago

Republicans "we need to create a problem to blame the Democrats for, you know, like we usually do..."

[–] [email protected] 50 points 9 months ago

And if Republicans won't cooperate in fixing the border problem, they are in fact, causing it.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Fascists deliberately create chaos so they can try to sell you the idea that they're the only ones who can end the chaos.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 9 months ago

Back in the day, the Nazis would hold rallies in Communist neighborhoods. There'd be a riot, and the Nazis would make sure the locals got the blame. "Only a strong leader can prevent this chaos."

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago

Agreed, and these sick fascists have no problem streamrolling right over the people who vote them into office. It's amazing how many americans are willing to slit their own throats.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago

Every accusation is a confession, and they make a lot of accusations about Democrats regarding border security.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago

Their goal posts are always on wheels.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago

Yeah. Specifically, a crisis in which russia no longer recognizes the border with Alaska.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

Read all about it in this month’s issue of DUH.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The unsaid GOP position isn't just to defend the border, but to completely stop all immigration of non-whites and non-Christians while deporting the ones who are here (legal or not). Anything less than that won't be enough for them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

But, perhaps like Roe vs. Wade, I think they want the (manufactured) constant fear of immigration looming over their voter base. I'd be willing to bet that many higher up R's know full well that immigrants play a vital role in the economy, and that the right-wing policies would hurt the country. But by all means, demonize and throw them under the bus in the name of activating your base.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Oh they absolutely know immigration is essential to the economy, or at least their profits. Otherwise we would see them going after businesses that hire illegal immigrants instead of pushing a pointless wall.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Also the AfD position, but they're a bit more upfront about it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Republicans - Chicken Littles every one - want disaster to prove them right. They ignore every word anybody says to them that isn't already something they say to themselves. It's like their consciousness is password operated. If you don't say the right words and mean the right things by them, they regard you as subhuman and just go back to doing whatever they were doing. All the "isms" are operating at full swing in their brains and there's not really anyone home, which is why they panic so easily, because it would be super embarrassing for it to be demonstrated that they have no idea what you're talking about or why it's important.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

The 2018 midterms were fucking insane.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

It's the old cycle-

"Americans don't want to work."

"Okay, so let's let immigrants do the work."

"We can't let immigrants steal the jobs!"

"Okay, so hire Americans."

"Americans don't want to work."

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Imagine if we started accepting immigrants as being human and worthy of respect. What a horror that would be - we'd have to take apart the wall that cost us all so much money and start accepting people as human beings worthy of dignity and honor and trust.

Odd isn't it when you realize that most of Western America was actually part of the country of Mexico not so long ago. It may be - now this is a radical statement - but it just may be, that we're all human beings and all these barriers and labels and divisions really should be gotten rid of for good.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Johnson Johnson Johnson Johnson Johnson

~~Johnson~~
Traitor Johnson.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

I say let's really piss the republitards off, and make Mexico our 51st nation-state. Not by force. But by the willing cooperation of the Mexican people and government. It's pretty clear the mexican population would rather be part of our country, and not separated by all these barriers.

Hundreds of thousands of Americans commute to Mexico for work, and vice-versa, every day of the week. So why do we erect barriers and even have a division at all? I know this is a very simple and radical idea - but honestly the whole world sees America as being both our country and mexico as one combined area. And once, most of western America WAS part of Mexico. Most of our problems in this country are from home-grown americans, not "drug dealers" or "rapists" from mexico - fentanyl is being carried in by americans who go to mexico to get it. It is not the immigrants who have anything to do with it at all.

We could combine with Mexico to put our federal forces to work eradicating cartels and regulating the hell out of drug production, which is what we do best, and allow our capitalism to help put money into the coffers of the people of mexico.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

51st state? How about 51-65th state? Have you ever spoken to a Mexican that lives in Mexico?

It's pretty clear the mexican population would rather be part of our country, and not separated by all these barriers.

It's not at all clear that that's the case.

And once, most of western America WAS part of Mexico.

Maybe you should give those lands back to Mexico. Way fewer people would be changing countries than if Mexico joined the USA.

allow our capitalism to help put money into the coffers of the people of mexico

You know that they have capitalism in Mexico too right?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yes I've been to Mexico more times than I can count, and every part of it and I do speak Spanish so it's been very rewarding. And they all say they are envious of my life here in the U.S. and that they wish they had our opportunities.

You do know that even though they have capitalism in Mexico, it doesn't trickle down to benefit any of the people there, right?

I just do not understand why every concept that might work always has to be questioned this way as if it was anymore ridiculous or intolerable than he current migrant situation at the border.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

As a Canadian I also sometimes envy the opportunities that exist in the USA but I absolutely would not want Canada to be a 51st (& 52nd?) state. (Not would I actually seek to move there)

You do know that even though they have capitalism in Mexico, it doesn't trickle down to benefit any of the people there, right?

Yes, this is an inherent challenge with capitalism (capital concentration).

I just do not understand why every concept that might work always has to be questioned this way as if it was anymore ridiculous or intolerable than he current migrant situation at the border.

I mean I think it's important to question ideas before implementing them, but you're right that your country (and mine) have some serious challenges to tackle with respect to migration. Mexico also struggles with migration across its southern (and coastal?) border(s).

It looks like in 2013 about 60% of Mexicans favoured forming a single country with the USA (if doing so would improve their standard of living). That data is over 10 years old and a lot has changed since then but honestly it's higher than I would have thought.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well Canada is a great country also, I've been to all the provinces and I spent a couple weeks in Banff and one of the other national parks that I somehow got lost in and had fun finding my way around.

I think Canada is much more independent and well developed than Mexico. My suggestion about Mexico was only in regard to their struggles to be as independent and gain some financial well being as a people.

After all I'm merely making a hypothetical suggestion, and not saying it would be easy or could happen overnight. Frankly I'm just a "world without borders" kind of idiotic optimist. I think we make the immigration situation so much harder by denying people the right to even set foot in another country. I'm sure most Mexican nationals would prefer to stay in Mexico if they had the same economic opportunities (and could live without fear of the cartels).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yeah I'm also interested in reducing barriers to migration from a human rights perspective.

But I think we need to reduce international disparities in standard of living before open borders would really work.

I think trade penalties against countries with high degrees of wealth concentration and/or without living wage regulations etc might help. Idk.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

I agree. I feel that we can reduce those disparities if we have more open congress between us and the people we view as "others." At any rate, I don't think building high walls and putting up razor wire is ever going to be a good solution to anything going on in the world.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

I'm going to take your post at face value to explore the foundational premise that the Mexican population wants to be part of the USA.

Do they? Sure, many come here, because of opportunities, but making Mexico a state won't suddenly make Mexico rich. Hell, Central Pennsylvania has been a part of the US since the beginning, and it's as poor as dirt.

I don't know - I'm not qualified to speak on behalf of any immigrants, except perhaps my great-great-something Euro ancestors - but I suspect the Mexicans who come here do so despite the fact that it's America, because it's better than starving at home. Making them us is probably just as distasteful to them as is would be to the RePubeLickans. Now, if we could help make them more prosperous... that, they'd be happy about.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

Well that's true enough, I know a lot of them are from other countries including the middle east. I was just thinking in general of the whole ridiculous notion that we're somehow a different planet than Mexico and "they" must be walled off from coming here.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Same reason the Democrats keep saying shit like 'The country needs a Republican party'. Hell, same reason Bibi funded Hamas. When you find a Boogeyman that works, keep em in play.