this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2024

87 points (85.4% liked)

politics

19072 readers

3839 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

• News

• World News

• Business News

• Political Discussion

• Ask Politics

• Military News

• Global Politics

• Moderate Politics

• Progressive Politics

• UK Politics

• Canadian Politics

• Australian Politics

• New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

Former Obama Advisor David Axelrod: It’s ‘deeply, deeply’ unhelpful to dismiss concerns about Biden polling as ‘bedwetting’ (thehill.com)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

55 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 58 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The Biden campaign is right that it's way too early to be panicing about a 1% gap in polling. But they shouldn't be taking anyone's vote for granted.

There was record turnout in 2020. Biden won more votes than any candidate had in the past.... But so did Trump! His 74M vote total would have won any other election.

Biden can easily lose this election by turning off a small portion of his supporters and driving them either to a 3rd party, or to stay at home. And, well, calling them "bed-wetters" will not encourage them to remain supportive.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago (1 children)

He'd be better off improving his policy around Israel than wincing at 1% poll numbers.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If any single issue is going to lose him the election, it's that one.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Trump’s policy would be the same things but worse. So, people thinking they’ll sit it out or oppose Biden aren’t really thinking this through.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So, people thinking they’ll sit it out or oppose Biden aren’t really thinking this through.

Nevertheless, they exist. The party regards them with contempt at everyone's peril.

Of course, Biden shouldn't be supporting genocide in any event because it's genocide.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I agree. The Dems are doing a pretty crappy job, like they did in 2015-16. I have no idea why Biden think he needs to run again when he could pass the torch to someone like Newsom and it would be much more energizing. It's pretty egotistical of him when he already said he wasn't going to run a 2nd time, and I don't get this "only I can beat trump" idea he has. I don't think it was true in 2020 and it's not now. And yes, the Israel support needs to go, but of course, it's not only Biden - it's a wide swath of politicians in Congress from both parties who are happy to give Israel a blank check and look the other way. That needs to change somehow and it would take a lot more than a presidential election.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

And yes, the Israel support needs to go, but of course, it’s not only Biden

Of course it isn't. No Democrat should be supporting genocide. But the guy who stands between us and Trump has no business inviting that comparison. It shouldn't be a choice between "hell yes, genocide" and "we can have a little genocide, as a treat. It'll stop there, we pwomise."

It should be "Fuck no. No genocide. 'Never again' means something, dammit." Democrats expect us to accept moral victory over actual victory every time. They expect us to be happy that they have adhered to procedure for its own sake, no matter how many suffering people that requires they abandon. Watching them turn around and support genocide is all those slaps in the face all over again, plus the gutpunch of knowing that the party that's all about moral victory has been itchin' for genocide this whole time.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I wouldn't blame them for hating the fact that the options are murdering children or murdering children even harder.

But then I'd tell them this is America and if there's one thing that's been consistent throughout our history it's been murdering children so if you want something else you'll have to move.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This is true. We are not presented with a choice about this, same as many other issues such as capitalism and corporate power.

I’d also look at Ukraine and domestic issues however. Trump enthusiastically embraced ultra fucked up policies like splitting up migrant children from their parents. He also declared he’d build camps in the US for immigrants.

Trump also would hand over Ukraine to Putin. And it’s not just Trump, it’s the majority of new school R politicians who want to end aid.

So, while the US is fucked on Israel policy, there are still options about how much harm you’d like kids in other countries to come to.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't vote on whether they'll stop killing kids, because they won't. I vote on whether they'll be sad about it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I vote on whether they’ll be sad about it.

Which they also won't.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

It's nice to pretend sometimes

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

There's a significant Muslim population in swing states like Michigan. You think they'll really come out in droves to support someone who wouldn't do the slightest push back against a genocide? That the other guy is worse doesn't matter, they'll sit it out, leave the President line blank or vote third party.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Yes, that’s the problem. People who otherwise would vote for a Democratic admin are being turned off and we will end up with something worse in a dozen respects because people can’t really think strategically. Trump and DeSantis have called for genocide IN THE US, so maybe that’s not great criteria.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The options are "genocide" and "more genocide."

Biden shouldn't be supporting genocide at all.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

i expect to have at least 4 options on my ballot.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

I expect "not genocide" to be at least one option on mine.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That would be nice. His admin should obviously be way more firm against Israel. Americans are obviously not being properly represented by either party. The proper thing to do would to pressure Democrats in Congress and the Biden admin without giving up and tossing the election to the fascists, which seems to be where it's headed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The proper thing to do would to pressure Democrats in Congress and the Biden admin without giving up and tossing the election to the fascists, which seems to be where it’s headed.

I find it interesting that of all the issues that centrist Democrats could have finally chosen to actually stand firm on, it would be support for genocide. And they don't care if it costs them the election. Centrist Democrats would rather have genocide and lose than no genocide and win.

If Biden wants the votes of people for whom genocide is a dealbreaker, he can't continue supporting genocide. It's as simple as that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

It's basically that our electoral system is about fully decayed, as far as the influence of money, and the Israel lobby has been very strong for quite some time. I don't think they're picking to support Israel because they truly care one way or the other, rather that they do believe it's politically expedient.

Centrist Democrats are basically the Republicans of the 80s. We don't really have much representation on the left at all.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Trump couldn't pull of a genocied, he couldn't even build a damn wall. The president is not a dictator he can't singlehandedly do that, and no one's gonna vote for someone actively killing their family instead of someone who might be able to kill their family. Especially when that other person was president for four years and didn't kill their family. Be mad at it if you want but that's the votes you necessarily lose.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It’s not Trump who actually does anything. It’s the long line of cruel ideologues and grifters he puts in his administration like Steven Miller, and the police-military complex they’ve built up like ICE. And of course the Trump admin can and would give Israel weapons and money as easily as Biden.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

None of that is gonna make those people vote for Biden though. No ones going to choose certain death over the unknown. Trump couldn't build a wall and failed setting up a South American coup. South American coups are like what the US does best. You lose those voters when you stand with Israel like Biden has. You can't 'but Trump' those people back to the polls.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Trump isn't in any way an unknown and he's made his 'policy' opinions extremely clear, to the extent anything he says is clear. He also had 4 years of a presidency with a pretty shitty record on just about everything except getting abortion banned, packing courts with religious ideologues, and tax cuts for rich people. This next election is just as much 'oh please anyone but fucking trump' as the last one, and Biden did have tons of people voting against Trump as much as voting for Biden. But sure, Americans love this stupid "Let's give the other party a chance" thing and have short memories and poor sources of information.

Should Biden be running only on "I'm not Trump"? No, of course not. It is still a factor though and he might actually have a harder time against a different opponent. I would love for someone younger and sharper like Gavin Newsom to step up, but both national parties are in shambles right now - the RNC with their near-total ownership by Trump, and the Democrats doing the same stupid shit they did when Bernie was running and not giving other candidates a fair chance.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

The wall was a very unrealistic idea all along, so of course it wasn't built. Trump didn't care. It was a campaign device and a grift. The border is huge, and it would take a very long time to build a permanent wall, plus the funding - anyone with an IQ over room temp knew "Mexico will pay for it" was absurd.

But sure, I can't imagine Muslims wanting to vote for Biden either. But considering Trump is an out-and-out racist asshole, well, great. As for most of the rest of the country there are no good choices here.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Quickly followed by Trump's fascist regime stripping their citizenship, birthright or otherwise & exiling them from the USA.

Legally, thanks to the christofascists on SCotUS.

Don't say it can't happen here. It will.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

So we need to do what we can to get the anti-genocide people back on our side.

Biden may have to accept that genocide isn't as popular with voters as it is with centrist Democrats.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Hey, if Biden cared about the country enough to not let christofascists win, maybe he should do popular stuff that people like. People would probably prefer their genocide money to go towards healthcare instead.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I don't really think that this 'It's either Biden or Trump!' mentality is helpful. If the DNC wanted to, they could present a different, more appealing candidate. We haven't even reached the primary yet. We don't even know for sure that Trump will be able to run yet. If the most appealing thing about Biden is that he isn't Trump, clearly he shouldn't be the candidate.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I’d love for it to be a different candidate than Biden. There’s no guarantee whoever else they come up with would be better on this issue though. It’s a sizable group but a minority of D politicians who oppose the current policy of giving Israel weapons.

Still though, another Trump admin would be an unprecedented complete clusterfuck of a disaster, so I don’t really care whether if it’s Biden or Jiminy Cricket, just not that insufferable deranged criminal again.

Even if not Trump, republicans have fallen over themselves to express the most support of the current government of Israel and their policies. At this point non Trump R candidates leading are Haley and DeSantis, who would hardly say “you know, we need to pressure Israel to stop and we’re increasing humanitarian programs in Gaza”.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (6 children)

I understand that, but the point I'm trying to make is that the "Vote for Biden if you don't want Trump!" argument is bad, and if you really want to convince people to vote for Biden, why not appeal to the good things he's done and could do, rather than just a fear of the bad things a Republican administration would do? We're all tired of hearing 'You have to vote for bad if you don't want worse!'. It worked in 2020 because everyone was reeling from the Trump administration already, but it's been 4 years, it's not as fresh in everyone's mind, and I really don't think it's going to be as effective this year. Even with it being fresh in everyone's mind, it was still a scarily close race.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I feel like Biden has put together a competent administration and has accomplished some positive things for people. They could do better at messaging about that.

However, my comments are based on this one issue which other people brought up, not me. It’s simply a fact that any Republican admin would be worse about war and human rights, because they always have been.

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

If the most appealing thing about Biden is that he isn’t Trump

But it's not. The appealing thing about Biden is he's quite literally got more Progressive action done in his first term than the last two Democratic presidents combined.

The reality about Biden is he's the most progressive president we've had since FDR.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

That was really a reference to the fact that every time this comes up, the automatic, repeated response is, "You have to vote for Biden if you don't want Trump!" - it's almost the entire argument in favor of voting for him.

I'm not going to deny that he's done a lot of good things, and tried to do more only to get shut down by the other branches of government, but his Israel policy is really casting a shadow over everything else, for me personally, at least.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The reality about Biden is he’s the most progressive president we’ve had since FDR.

What has Biden done on the level of LBJ's Medicare? What's his equivalent of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, or the 1964 Civil Rights Act?

What has Biden done on the level of Obama's ACA?

Putting a finer point on this: Biden's Inflation Reduction Act does less for the environment than Nixon's EPA did. Nixon.

I get that you want support from progressives for pretending to want progressive shit, but no. Biden is not the most progressive anything. It's insulting to expect progressives to buy that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Who cares what Trump might do, people need to focus on what Biden is actually doing.l and not give him a pass because orange man scary.

Before 2020 we heard nothing but 'push him left after the election,' supporting him through genocide and putting profit over people by bombing Yemen is not pushing him left

[–] [email protected] 35 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Polls are garbage this far out in a "normal", year.

Obama was "losing" at this point of his reelection as well, something, something, something, drone strikes.

Democrats have been beating polls by 9+ points at the ballot box since Roe v. Wade was overturned.

Nothing is going to stop the Media from promoting the horse race they paid for.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

Nothing is going to stop the Media from promoting the horse race they paid for

They're getting paid for it, actually.

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't know. I don't trust any polling. If the last 8 years have taught us anything, it's that it's a very imprecise science. And the pollsters haven't adapted or learned anything either. All I know is there was a massive blue wave in 2018 as a reaction to Trump. Historic turnout in 2020 to kick his shit show out of office. And in 2022 there was supposed to be a red wave that never materialized and Trump proved to be electoral poison for every candidate he endorsed. Those were the results from the only poll that mattered those years. So while it IS concerning, you have to also look at it along with the actual trend.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Pollsters can't seem to get a pulse on Millennials and Gen Z. For that reason, all these polls that show Biden ahead one month and Trump ahead another are really only useful to pollsters, political scientists, and campaign workers.

Besides, is anyone seriously going to change their vote because of these polls?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Pollsters can’t seem to get a pulse on Millennials and Gen Z.

That's OK. Democrats won't listen to them anyway.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Damnit people, get out and vote! If you let your social media manipulate you into sitting it out, you might as well choke on the phallus of whichever dictator manipulating you via your feed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

2024 is going to be so different than 2020. No Labels will do everything in its power to hand the election to Trump. RFK Jr. ,who is being propped up by Bannon and Flynn, is attempting to take the leftist vote from Biden while No Labels will try to take the moderate vote. Trump has a cult following that will not vote for anyone else other than Trump. If there are four names on the ballot in November, it will go to Trump.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

The Left isn't for RFK Jr.

load more comments