There was somebody posting these lyrics in other community as something that spoke to them:

You know, suicide isn’t painless,
When you leave everyone in pain.
NOFX - Doornails

Anybody has the right to have any lyrics - or any thing really - to mean whatever it needs to mean to them. But...

I lost a dear colleague and friend to suicide just a week ago and I am myself passively suicidal. Bullying people that contemplate ending their suffering into staying alive or tainting the names and acts of those that already did is just not the way to go.

Edit: this is not critique towards the person who commented those lyrics, but against that artist and society in general.

I just had to rant. Feel free to believe or react in any way that feels right to you.

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[–] 29 points 1 day ago (9 children)

Hi, I posted these lines. These lyrics are partly the reason why I'm still here today. A friend of mine quoted these exact lines to me when I was at my lowest point. I never understood them as bullying. They gave me another reason not to give up. Life can get better after depression. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I'm sorry for your loss.

A little info about this song:

This song is dedicated to all the people who did drugs (like the singer himself), but suffered and died because of it. All the people mentioned in this song were Fat Mike’s friends, except for his mother of course.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    I had forgotten about that song, thank you for bringing it back into my ethos. Helped me a lot growing up as well.

    For me the lyrics that always did and still hold me here some days: Please tell mom this is not her fault.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 day ago* (7 children)

    Thanks so much for sharing and I am genuinely happy that you are still with us!🩷

    I can absolutely see these lyrics being the words of somebody grieving, so I don't mean to take away the validity of what they mean to the artist or to you. I also have a friend who is still alive only because I reminded her how much pain her passing would cause me. I don't know if I'd react the same today, or use the same words as I did back then.

    Again, I am not upset at all, at all. The lyrics just clashed with my current perception of suicide and society's common trend of victim blaming.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 day ago (6 children)

    Eh, you’re kinda victim blaming rn.

    Real talk, conmect w people who knew your friend and grieve w them properly. Talk about the good, bad, and utterly absurd times. Maybe you’ll enumerate enough of a why to be graced with some semblance of closure.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    Eh, you’re kinda victim blaming rn. Could you be more specific? How and what victim am I blaming?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 day ago* (4 children)

    Because I raged for 10m fixing the formatting, you can break lines from a quote by adding an extra newline between the > and where you start actual dialogue.

    The victims are the band members, and the singer, who have lost people to suicide, and the pain - like you’re going through - is expressed in the lyrics your denegrating.

    Sure you can be upset at society, but don’t get mad at an artist for making art that hits a bit too close to home rn.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    Interpret my post however you want. I don't think I could've been any clearer on that this is my personal take on the matter.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    And I’m just reacting in a way that feels right to me. I hope you find solace fam, we’re all here if you need to chat.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    Thanks! ^^ What's "fam"? xD My internet lingo is... Outdated.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    It’s a colloquialism for “family” in the American Urban diaspora, with roots in the Black diaspora. Its a gender neutral term that denotes respect and love, but taken from an observational stance.

    So if someone is being an asshole one would say, “aight, fam.” to keep it short and change the pace of a conversation. On the flip, my usage is embedded in context, so it could be casually associated w Dude, Bro, Girl, etc. on a more harmonic tone.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I see it as a counterpoint to one specific thing some suicidal people believe: That they're a burden, that everyone would be better off without them, and that their suicide will do those around them a favor. It most likely won't; it will just hurt them.

    That being said, suicide is a massively complex topic and there's a huge difference between e.g. someone with a terminal disease who uses assisted suicide to pass on with dignity and someone whose inner demons talk them into believing their continued existence has no worth. No argument ever applies to all situations.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 day ago

    I agree. Thanks for illuminating the differences and the complexity of the matter! I'd even add that it's a spectrum in some sense. For instance, one could be fighting their inner demons and be tormented by an incurable disease.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 day ago*

    Suicide isn't always rational. Someone who is terminal and in excruciating physical pain 24/7 is one thing. Someone suffering depression isn't necessarily thinking rationally and probably does not actually want to die. Depression is a mental disorder and can make you think and do things you wouldn't otherwise. Being mean about it is shitty, but it's not necessarily wrong to talk someone out of suicide if they don't have a really good reason.

    And I say this as a depressed individual with constant suicidal ideations.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago* (5 children)

    It's a travesty that assisted dying isn't already a thing everywhere. Imagine looking at an incurably sick person who is constantly in pain and/or in the process of losing everything that makes life worth living (motor skills, memory etc.) and forcing them to go on because "suicide bad".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    Ugh in Canada we have an exclusion for people using assisted death (MAID) solely for mental health. They just recently extended that exclusion 'indefinitely'.

    I know it is more clear-cut with physical illness but people with incurable less visible disabilities should be allowed a dignified death as well.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 day ago

    This just reminded me of how much easier it could make things for loved ones too. Instead of, for instance, finding your loved one OD:d, hanged, cut or whatever horrifying method they used, they could possibly actually be prepared and have a proper goodbye.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    I don't know about that... If we had assisted dying, capitalism would ruin it. They'd start pushing it hard on people, anyone deemed 'no longer productive'. There would be constant stories about dementia or mental illness patients given forms they didn't understand, signing their own death warrants without realizing what they were doing.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (1 child)

    Assisted dying has been legal in several European countries, e.g. in Netherlands and Belgium since 2002.

    You're not wrong though, there's definitely a risk in turbocapitalist or authoritarian countries like the USA.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    We're all one thing, and hurting yourself hurts it. I'm sorry you lost your friend. Acknowledging the impact suicide has on survivors is in no way bullying or passing judgment. We all die someday, just try to die trying. This world needs you every bit as much as you need it, whoever you are. Whether you make it to 18 or 80. I have a really hard time seeing a reminder of our interconnectedness, of the intrinsic place purpose and impact we possess simply by existing, as a bad thing. The end of your life is not an end to suffering, only your experience thereof. Everything keeps going whether or not you're here for it. You matter.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    I think that I don't feel the same way about people's interconnectedness. But with respect to those that feel that way, or rather, even though I respect that view, I just don't feel how my - or my friend's - suffering has any cognitive or emotional room for weighing in how my (or her) end of suffering affects others. I'm already carrying a mountain. I don't need another pebble on top of it. Does that make sense?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    I'm really sorry to hear that. I find the unity of being a pretty obvious, fundamental, and directly observable truth. Being a good part of this greater whole is my core motivation. When people say 'touch grass' they're (unfortunately often derisively) reminding you to ground yourself in that shared reality. In a zero sum game where everyone possesses their own suffering and competes to experience the least what you're saying makes sense, but I refuse to live that way. It's all our suffering, experienced collectively, and the collapse of one small spark of self inevitably leaves the burden of that experience on the shoulders of the living when it's gone. I think a lot of systemic effort goes into isolating and atomizing us. We're a lot easier to manipulate when we feel isolated and alone. There's not much more I can do to convince you of it through a screen, but that's the message I hope to convey here. Not "suicide is wrong", but "we're all in this together".

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago* (5 children)

    It’s because the effect of suicide on the person’s loved ones is too often ignored. It absolutely should be considered.

    Look, suicide is hell. For one to be in that place is something I’d never wish on anyone. I’ve been there. Many times. And I’m passively there seemingly permanently.

    But one must consider the effects of it. From every angle. It WILL hurt loved ones. It probably will destroy some of them. There is no way to circumvent this. And it should be known. You cannot ignore this because it is uncomfortable or difficult. You WILL hurt everyone you know.

    Suicide is incredibly selfish. This is a hard truth. But a necessary one.

    Also. There is absolutely nothing bullying about these lyrics or the song. It’s someone pouring their heart out. It’s their take. It deserves to be heard.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    I hear what you're saying and I respect your opinion, but I firmly disagree, especially on that it's a "hard truth". Just like how the above lyrics didn't sit well with me because of my specific world view, experiences and opinion, you're probably also subject to whatever molded your views. There is no universal truth (except that the universe is infinite, if you're a Stargate fan). I still believe that suicide is nobody's business to the extent that we have the right to call a suicide victim selfish. It absolutely ravaged me, destroyed me when I learned that my colleague took her life. But I'd never ever judge or label her or her act in any other way than that her suffering is over.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago* (3 children)

    I’ve lost friends to suicide. One helped the other, and then couldn’t handle it so he helped himself. and as someone who loved both of them for over 30 years and had to remain 3,000 miles away when it happened- i couldn’t be there for either of them. This is going to be there with me for the rest of my fucking life. So… yeah. I think I have a place in the subject to speak my mind on it.

    It fucked up a LOT of people that will NEVER get over it. So, yeah. I get to say it. It’s fucking selfish. Does that minimize it? NO. Does that dismiss it? NO. But the loss is absolutely CRUSHING for those that they leave behind. And everyone that thinks to do something so harsh- absolutely needs to know this before they carry it out.

    Suicide is a permanent solution to temporary problems.

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  • Why did none of you think about how the pain needed to stop? Would you rather them continue? If they just this, if they just that... That stuff doesn't work when you're just unhappy. Some people just stay in a depressed state. If I do it, I just want everyone to be good with it and know I'm no longer suffering.

    I didn't consent to being condemned to 80 years of forced labor on a planet where life is terrible, so I should have a choice of death if I want it. If people want out, let them go.

    I'm also nearing 50, and I was only happy for one of those years in 2021. Statistically, it probably will not happen again.

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