But you'll need a powerful system with 64GB of RAM to use it.

Microslop thinks that "Clutter free" means "bundled with an always on LLM" 😸

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[+] 224 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (13 children)
  • [–] 61 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    Don't be so mean. You can do many useful things on windows. Like for example selecting Linux distro, downloading it and saving on an USB.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

    Like for example selecting Linux distro, downloading it and saving on an USB.

    Using an USB thing is the somewhat decadent newfangled way to do things. The more classy way was to download the whole distro to an 1.44 MB floppy drive. \installation was by dd .... of=/dev/fd0. Yeah, it required 16 megabytes of RAM. It was possible to boot it on an 386 PC. Though kernel compiles were a bit lengthy.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Why not just PXE boot it over the token ring network?

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  • [–] 172 points 1 month ago (31 children)

    The goal, really, is to cut the crud out of Windows to create a more Linux-like experience.

    but

    for powerful developer hardware with 64GB of RAM and gobs of memory bandwidth.

    ????

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  • [–] 21 points 1 month ago* (26 children)

    Why do developers need 64GB+ RAM on their computers? Maybe I’m biased as a Ruby on Rails web application developer but I’m happily squeaking by on just 8GB RAM. Maybe they’re developing with the memory-hungry VS Code?

    I thought it was the gamers who needed tons of RAM.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 month ago (15 children)

    Visual Studio, VS Code, WSL2, docker containers, SQL Server + SSMS, MS Teams, ...

    Usually all at the same time. Not everyone is doing just web dev.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (13 children)

    Teams, Visual Studio, VS Code are trash, they leak memory like no other

    WSL2 is hilarious, just run Linux/UNIX?

    SQL Server and SSMS are trash

    I run Docker quite a bit but if you’re actually writing the containers efficiently it shouldn’t be sucking down ~64GB of RAM. But I’ve also seen how people shovel things like Java, log rotation, etc. into those containers because they act like it’s a 1994 VPS.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    This is on my work PC, I can't just switch there (:

    For .NET development Visual Studio and Rider are the only decent options, everything else is "trash". Teams is the company communication tool (besides Outlook).

    And we run SQL Servers in Azure, PostgreSQL would cost the same (but I'd love to switch to it myself).

    You don't need 64 GB of RAM, I was happy with 48 GB too, but the headroom is nice. 32 GB would be borderline for my work though, especially as I often have two heavy backend services open (2x Visual Studio) plus a Python project for automated tests (VS Code).

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago*

    Not everyone does the same development process as you.

    And I’m sure we all work at places that allow us to change the entire tech stack and switch away from teams /s

    Be realistic, there are many reasons you need all of these things and more. Why are you trashing other people so much?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    I don't get it either.

    If they said "requires a beefy dGPU or one of the handful of high-bandwidth APUs" that feels like it would make more sense than just 64G RAM. I thought most models weren't optimized to run on a CPU even with gobs of RAM.

    And plenty of firms don't ship their devs 64G machines, especially in ghe current RAM crunch. Mine sent me a 16G machine in like 2023 and only replaced it with 32 on request because Win11+Docker were heavier than the old Win10/external server workflow.

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    [–] 148 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 72 points 1 month ago
    [–] 67 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Clearly, the focus is on local AI development β€” a timely move as cloud AI token costs start to rise.

    This is called burying the lede.

    If Microsoft knows this cloud-based AI thing is a bust and people will be moving to local models that are not controlled by Microsoft or OpenAI or Anthropic, then it's only a few months before Satya tells his investors buddies and the bubble pops.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I find this unlikely... IMO I think they are hedging in both directions.

    Personally I like the idea of local AI. open source models that you an control, decide, and use smartly, sort your things etc... and not pay an absurd cost or link up.

    Personally I think MS is actually betting on the opposite. IE they had a prototype windows that was basically just an AI prompt, no start menu etc... and applications just "streamed".

    IMO I think that's more of the goal, use the data center buildout to drive up hardware prices, until people cannot afford a basic PC. Sell thin clients... then sell us "access" to compute in a form where we own nothing, but pay by the processes used etc...

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    [–] 60 points 1 month ago

    You believed Microslop once, that's on them. You believed Microslop twice, that's on you.

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  • [–] 51 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    You need 64 GB or RAM to use it? Seems like it's just a marketing gimmick to find dumb developers who can afford 64GB of RAM in the first place. Kind of like that "I am Rich" app....

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  • [–] 25 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Some of us bought our 64gb of ram when it was cheap.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I have 128gb. I didn't need 128gb but it was a good deal and thought fuck it, i spent too much into AM4 anyway might as well go all in and not bother with AM5 for another four years if ever.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    64GB of RAM to use it.

    Does that mean it does not run on my beloved Thinkpad X220 with 4GB?

    Looks like I am stuck with running Debian 13 on it.

    Fun fact, at $currentwork there are two true believers in AI and somehow they managed to procure me a laptop for home office which weights in roughly 9 kilograms - a bit more than six times as heavy as my 12 year old X220. Must be the battery which is needed to power the NVidia graphics card.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Is this their follow up to the wildly successful Project Test Everything In Production?

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  • [–] 37 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It’s called zenith because it only gets worse from here

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    [–] 24 points 1 month ago*

    The goal, really, is to cut the crud out of Windows to create a more Linux-like experience.

    LOL. I'll just keep using Linux, thank you very much. Great article though:

    […] demanding 64GB of RAM in the age of the RAMaggedon seems inexcusable. (Especially because Microsoft's partnership with OpenAI and its overall AI push is a big reason memory prices have skyrocketed.)

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    Zero details about what clutter they're going to remove...

    E: Reading the original Windows release does not mention anything at all about decluttering. They do call it "distraction-free" at one point, but no elaboration on what that means...

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (1 child)
  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago

    "Our new product is our old product with fewer kicks in the face."

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Microslop must be getting tired of all the winning.

    /s, obviously

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    [–] 12 points 1 month ago

    I’m sure the event viewer, resource monitor, etc will support hidpi with this right and it’s not just gonna be another Ui layer painted on top of all the old ones like a shitty apartment where you can cut the wall and count the layers of paint

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago

    Win 11 IOT enterprise LTSC already exists and doesn't even require a TPM.

    Unless this is a legitimate channel for regular users to get IOT enterprise LTSC, this is a non-story. The thing we want already exists, they just refuse to sell it.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    If it was "clutter free", it would not need 64GB. It might even work with 4GB or less.

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    [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    Why doesn't Microsoft just use AI to fix their shit products? I thought AI was the future and Microsoft is OpenAI's largest shareholder so this should be a slam dunk.

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