this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
25 points (87.9% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35728 readers
964 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

What are cis and trans alternate types of? I don't think it's "gender identity" because wouldn't that just be man, woman or nonbinary regardless of whether they're cis or trans? Cis/trans just being a qualifier?

If the answer is "I am cis" or "I am trans", what is the question?

Edit: Someone came up with the term "gender congruity" and (after looking up the definition of "congruity") I think this describes what I'm talking about perfectly.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

To a first approximation, they describe the match or mismatch between a person's gender identity and their assigned gender at birth (AGAB).

"Cis" = "my gender identity matches my assigned gender at birth"
"Trans" = "my gender identity does not match my assigned gender at birth"

The question being asked is, "Given that when you were born they thought of you as a (boy/girl); are you now expressing or experiencing a (male/female) gender, or a (female/male) one?"

Logically speaking, this is an xor operation; it asks if two things are the same or different. If boolean variable a represents your AGAB and boolean variable b represents your gender identity, then "are you trans?" is a xor b — is your AGAB different from your gender identity?

Again, this is to a first approximation. There are people who don't fit binary labels, and so an xor operation on binary labels doesn't fit them either.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I like the way you express this. "Cis / Trans" isn't about your gender, it's about whether your gender has CHANGED. (Although it may not be your GENDER that changed, but what people THOUGHT your gender was.)

In a similar way, I (a cis male) usually call myself "straight", but that's not really accurate. I don't feel like I'm attracted to whatever gender is different from mine (which happens to be women); I feel like I am attracted to women (which happens to be the gender that's different from mine).

Putting it differently, if some magical spell were to transform me into a woman, I don't imagine that I would then be attracted to men, I imagine that I would be attracted to women. So instead of calling myself "straight", I should probably be saying that I am "gynosexual" (attracted to women).

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Finally a "down to earth" explanation I can fully understand, thank you!

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

I think the confusion is coming from the fact that cis and trans really only have context of an expectation. In this case, it would be the expectation of society.

You are correct that if you identify as a woman or a man, you are a woman or man. If you have a penis, or a vagina, or some mix or lack of those, then those are just parts of your body and that isn't really up to interpretation.

In broad strokes, society expects your body parts (penis, vagina) to correspond to how you identify (man, woman). Humans are kind of just built this way. Our brains take a lot of shortcuts and categorize the world around us. It is statistically likely that if you have a penis, you identify as a man.

As we've evolved as a society, we have come to understand and recognize that these statistically likely correlations not always hold up (it's just likely, not a guarantee, after all). So cis and trans are descriptors of whether or not the correlation between your gender identity and your physical characteristics match (cis) or don't match (trans) society's expectations.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (57 children)

Please note I’m typing this as a trans man. Being “cis” or “trans” stems from someone’s gender.

Basically, do you identify as your birth gender (not sex, gender and sex are different)? If the answer is yes, you are “cis”. If the answer is no, like I my case, I was born female, I identify as a male, then you are are trans.

I hope this answers your question.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Basically, do you identify as your birth gender (not sex, gender and sex are different)?

The additional explanation actually confused me. Let's compare the two sentences:

  • A) Basically, do you identify as your birth gender?

  • B) Basically, do you identify as your birth sex?

I assume biological sex can be identified by looking at your body as a new born baby, and gender is usually inferred accordingly. So I would assume new borns are being assigned a gender which mathes their biology, although they probably don't have any opinions themselves on the topic.

Anyways, what's the difference between A and B? I feel you felt it was important to point it out, and I just can't see any.

load more comments (56 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Cis and trans are terms that came before their application to gender identity. I learned themin organic chemistry in reference to chemical isomers.

Wikipedia: The prefixes "cis" and "trans" are from Latin: "this side of" and "the other side of", respectively.

As applied to gender, "this side of" you are the gender of the sex you were born as. "The other side of" means you have switched your gender to the other side of the sex from which you were born.

Edit: to answer your question more directly, your gender is cis or trans of the sex you were born as. The question you ask for is: "is your gender cis or trans of your sex?"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

This is the correct answer to the question that was asked by OP.

Well said.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Cisgender means the person has a gender identity that matches the sex they were assigned at birth.

If you are a man and you were assigned male at birth, you are cis.

If you are a man and you were assigned female at birth, you are trans.

Non-binary can mean anything from not having a strong specifically male or female identity to closer to switching identities (bi-gender falls closer into this) to just having a lot of serious fluidity, but typically speaking at least part of the time the identity doesn’t match the assigned sex at birth.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You can think of 'cis' and 'trans' as meaning roughly 'this side' and 'other side'.

In a gender context the 'sides' are male and female and the items are physical gender and mental gender. If both genders are on the same side, both on 'this side', that's 'cis'. If they are different, one 'this side', one 'other side', that's 'trans'.

So, if the answer is "I am cis/trans" the question is "Is your mental gender the same as your physical gender?" "I am cis" then means "My mental gender is the same as my physical gender" and "I am trans" means "My mental gender is not the same as (or maybe 'is opposite') my physical gender".

Note that 'physical gender' is not always clear. Some people are born with ambiguous genitalia and may be surgically altered to make their genitalia more closely resemble the commonly recognized pattern for 'male' or 'female', and some may be left as-is. In some cases this can be a reason for a trans gender identity.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You can think of 'cis' and 'trans' as meaning roughly 'this side' and 'other side'.

Before “cisgender” became a widely publicized term, about the only time I ever heard the term “cis” was discussing Cisalpine versus Transalpine Gaul in ancient Rome. (Cisalpine Gaul being northern Italy and Transalpine Gaul southern France, more or less - the parts of Gaul that were on the same side or the opposite side of the Alps from Rome).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yep, as a space-fan I mostly heard it as 'cislunar' vs 'translunar'.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I don't think any of you read his question.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I think it's an alignment, like parallel vs. perpendicular.

If you identify with your sex at birth, whatever it is, your identity is aligned with your biological sex at birth, that is called Cisgender. Parallel.

If your gender identity is not aligned with your biological sex at birth, it is at an angle to it, perhaps perpendicular (you were a boy baby but are a woman) perhaps a different angle (perhaps were born a girl and are non-binary). Anything other than that parallel alignment is thrown into the Trans bucket, but particularly the perpendicular arrangements.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

CIS is simply opposite of TRANS - they simply describe someone's identity in terms of their physiology.

Confusion rises, somewhat, when you factor in masculinity/femininity to the equation - but basically 'trans' means that having a dick doesn't mean you're a man... 'cis' means that being a man means you have a penis.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

They're adjectives. Just like "tall" or "smart" or "young".

The question would just be "are you cis or trans?", there's not a specific word or term that you'd use.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

gender chirality . gender isomerism. gender topology

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My topology is a tube with appendages. Ultimately, humans (like all chordates) are convoluted toroids.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm still not sure where the term cis comes from.

It reminds me of sans, as in 'without'

Sans Serrif means a font without the twiddly bits at the end.

Cis Serrif, a font with the twiddly bits it was born with?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure if it is their origin, but in organic chemistry nomenclature, cis refers to a molecule whose interesting bits are on the same side (imagine both of your arms up or both of your arms down), and trans to one whose interesting bits are on opposite sides (like if one of your arms is up and the other is down). In the gender metaphor, the two 'interesting bits' are your current identity and your birth identity - cis for when they are the same, and trans for when they are different.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

You might call the category lived experience. Does your gender identity match your lived experience and upbringing, or does it not? Sometimes you see trans people use the phrase 'man of trans experience' or 'woman of trans experience' to highlight that the word trans applies to history and experience. So the question might be, "what is your gender experience?" or "what is the nature of your gender socialization?"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

If the answer is "I am cis" or "I am trans", what is the question?

The question would, to be blunt, be "are you cis or trans?", because "cis" and "trans" are just shorthand for "cisgender" and "transgender".

It's a question of very limited scope -- even if you were to reword it -- because in modern society, the exact detail of if someone is cis or trans isn't really practically important. If someone is a man, say, society cares a lot more about them being a man rather than being a cisgender man or a transgender man. (I'd say the same about women, but there's obviously a subset of society that is in the process of demonising trans women, so...)

I think the core issue you've found is that cis/trans-ness is something that only makes sense in the context of something else, the gender identity of the person in question.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I agree with what you're stating and I hope that that's where we are headed - there just being man, woman, and non-binary gender identities. For now though, as I see it, cis/trans become relevant in three ways (off the top of my head):

  1. Medical situations - self explanatory
  2. In pursuance of romantic/sexual relations - society is still at the stage where the visual perception of a person lead to certain presumptions. Not everyone may be okay with dating/having sex with a person who has different genitalia than they presumed that their partner would have.
  3. [This point is my personal opinion] The visibility of people openly owning their journey can be a source of information, give courage to others who are undergoing the same journey and are scared or confused. I knew about my orientation way before I realized that there's a term for it or that their are others like me.

I hope I got your query right.

load more comments
view more: next ›