Where I am in New York it's a little weird. There's one private helicopter that costs a lot for rescue and a police helicopter that's free. Also if it's just the rangers that come up to save you, that's also free. But the ambulance ride will bankrupt you.
I've even heard of a guy who will hike up a mountain, call 911 saying he's dehydrated and will wait for the rangers to carry him down, only to be fine at the bottom. (He's done it twice)
Second time he should be beaten so hard he's dehydrated from blood loss.
That's stupid, emergency services should not come at a cost. If it were a hiker needing to be rescued because they were stupid and didn't prepare properly charge them. If it's an unforseen emergency than provide it as a service.
I'm surprised the cops don't charge money for showing up to calls, or the firefighters. Why is the medical field so different?
Because most of it is privatized.
I'm all for universal health care. But at the same time being outdoors/hiking/fishing most of my life.
Some of the insanely stupid shit I've seen people do in the middle of fucking no where...
I mean accidents happen, but if you're that idiot that ignored four warnings and got gored trying to pet a bison, part of me thinks you SHOULD have to pay for that helicopter ride
There should be consequences, sure, but life long financial ruin isn't exactly a punishment that fits the crime here.
I never said that, more just a petty rant at the injustices of life. :p
I mean... damn, the US is not a real place
People are just ok with this. It's so bizarre.
Only in America.
Works the same in Germany :/.
That's not true.
How so?
From what I can tell, in Germany it's largely a "hope your medical insurance covers it" situation. Apparently, around 99.9% of people in Germany have health insurance in some form.
Only edge cases where people acted exceptionally recklessly wouldn't fully be covered by insurance, as far as my experience goes.
It's very different here. I was paying $400+ a month for united Healthcare and they denied everything. Couldn't see specialists, every treatment denied. They wouldn't even give me a 90 count supply of my meds. Only 30 counts.
I've had health issues that have gone unresolved for years.. Years! I work constantly and get almost nothing in return.
I'm not German but probably, the same.
Land of the Fee
He was a nurse to. Which just makes him more aware of how things like that can just ruin a person in the us. Remember when that hospital took away healthcare benefits from its janitorial staff. That to me is peak us explanations. A hospital can't afford to give its staff health insurance. ugh.
In Switzerland I pay 40CHF (~49USD) yearly to get a free helicopter evacuation in case of an accident. Never needed it, but I know people that have. Absolutely worth it. While it's "just hiking" in most cases, being out in nature in the middle of nowhere can get dangerous fast.
I don’t think people on here realize this but America literally has this too. My grandmother pays for it because she lives out in a very rural area. She pays a little more ($79 a year)
Not bullshitting you: https://www.lifeteam.net/membership
Quite limited service area: https://www.lifeteam.net/services/service-area
True but there is more than one of these orgs in America. This one just happens to be the biggest one.
joey lawrence here. i play the dimwitted heartthrob on blossom but there's no heart in the american medical system--last week i paid 5000000 to remove an entire package of sweet tarts from my urethra.
whoa!
In Italy I pay 0€ to be evacuated from anywhere. It's crazy that you have to pay for an emergency.
In France I think you pay a fee in certain situations (ski resort) but otherwise it is the same. And the pilots are total badasses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk7qUaFMDhw https://youtu.be/M0z9HRC7hlU?t=129
Yeah it's not great. Transport costs for emergencies are often only covered 50% in Switzerland. We do have the second most costly system after the US, and it's for the same reason imho, private insurers. There are some more guardrails here than in the US, so it's not completely horrible, but there are lots of better systems around Europe.
Regarding helicopter rescue specifically, that's kind of a funny case. In Switzerland the first helicopter rescue organization was founded as a non-profit foundation called Rega, and it continues to operate that way.
For patrons the Rega eats the cost of a rescue that no insurance covers. If you are not a patron and get rescued then the cost of the rescue that isn't covered falls to you. So in effect a Rega patronage also acts as a sort of gap-insurance.
Around 40% of the population are registered patrons of the Rega foundation. The cost for that is what benjirenji was actually referring to.
In Switzerland they deal with an endless line of brain-dead tourists that put themselves into stupid situations where helicopter evacuation is the only option, so I can kinda understand that they'd put some stuff in place to prevent people from abusing that.
Tourists are human and all humans deserve free and ready access to healthcare or other emergency services, regardless of if they were born within the arbitrary bounds of your nation or otherwise.
There is no understanding that justifies requiring payment for emergency services behind a paywall.
The relevant part isn't that they're tourists, it's that they willingly put themselves in dangerous situations they aren't prepared for that require dangerous and expensive evacuations by the bucket-load. High mountain evacuations are a very different beast from regular healthcare service. They need the guardrails, I think it's totally fair to pay your 40 bucks as insurance if you're going to go into these places.
The relevant part is they are humans and they deserve unfettered access to emergency services. Period.
Ok then they'll close access to the mountains... Is that better? If it was your son dying from having to rescue some idiot who went up there with no prep during a snowstorm I wonder if you'd think the same.
Or they could just not and provide the service, since that is always an option.
Nah, I'd be damn proud of them for risking their life to save another in need, not irrationally blame the one who had the need, regardless of why they needed it, because I'm not some jaded, misanthropic twit who just assumes the worst in everyone.
so you can pack up your little strawman and fuck all the way off with it.
Ok I'll give this one more reply in hopes you're actually arguing in good faith before I block you for calling me names (uncalled for btw).
Let me be clear, nowhere in what I said have I implied these people are sub-human or shouldn't be rescued, or arguing against universal, free healthcare.
I'm only explaining why Switzerland has this system, because their situation is particular. Based on language, I'm assuming you're a Brit and might not have a lot of experience in high altitude environments, which is totally fair.
Having special insurance or fees for helicopter rescues serves multiple purposes. On one hand, it helps ensure the service can actually be well staffed and well equipped with maintained equipment for when it's actually needed. On the other, and more importantly, it serves a preventive purpose which helps reduce the number of unprepared people going up the mountain. If you know you might end with a big bill for the helicopter ride, you're more likely to think twice about whether you actually know what you're doing.
Reducing these incidents does infinitely more good than just letting everyone do whatever and hope they can be rescued before it's too late for them, and without the rescue team facing peril in process.
Most people without high altitude experience just simply have no idea what they're signing up for when setting off on these trails and underestimate the danger while overestimating their ability. And yes, while I might've let loose a little bit on the tourist trash talk, it's not entirely their fault and of course, they obviously should be rescued regardless.
It's just a reality Switzerland has to deal with and this is one of the measures that help fund and reduce these rescues. Going into these places is a serious endeavour and taking out a very cheap insurance for it is really not a crazy thing. It sure doesn't seem to outrage the Swiss.
I do apologize for going for the personal parallel as that really didn't help the conversation in any positive manner, I sent this in 30sec during a short break.
Free healthcare doesn't mean you can put yourself and others in danger and not face any consequences. In fact I think in some places you might even face legal proceedings for this kind of thing.
I hope this helps clarify my position and allows us to end this thread positively with some understanding, the ball's in your camp, cheers.
The American healthcare system...
Ok, the headline leaves out the little detail that the hiker is a trained nurse, which was able to self-assess that if he wasn't dying already, that he has been fucking lucky with the path through the body.
But in every other civilized country they wouldn't have to be able to self-assess something like that, they would call emergency services instead of gambling with the possibility that some nicked artery or a wounded organ gets worse because of the trek - especially the path out on the lower back just screams "kidney injury" or "danger to the blood supply of that kidney".
I know a lot of nurses and I've been an EMT for getting close to 20 years.
The self assessment was "I can breathe. I can walk. I can not afford a $30,000 helicopter ride"
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