Xfce dev sponsored by Xfce project to create a Wayland compositor admits to heavily using Claude LLM for development, dismisses ethical concerns (www.spurint.org)

submitted 2 hours ago* (last edited 28 minutes ago) by ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net to c/linux@programming.dev

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cross-posted from: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/64896415

For additional context, here's Brian's previous blog post about the first preview release of Xfwl4, where he describes his history with Xfce and the sponsorship.

https://www.spurint.org/journal/2026/06/xfwl4s-first-preview-release

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[-] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 hours ago

Straight into the trash

[-] ell1e@leminal.space 19 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Well, that's sad. Who knows what potential unattributed plagiarism landmines are part of it then...

[-] SleveMcDichael@programming.dev 1 points 43 minutes ago* (last edited 11 minutes ago)

Well that explains the strange bug I started encountering in xfce recently. I guess I'll be spending tomorrow researching DEs, though I'll probably end up just using TDE or maybe CDE.

EDIT: clarified that the bug is in xfce, not xfwl.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 1 points 29 minutes ago

That may be something else if you're not currently using the Wayland compositor, which I think is still in alpha.

[-] SleveMcDichael@programming.dev 1 points 12 minutes ago

I'm still using xfce; after running into problems with Wayland the three times I tried it, I decided Wayland isn't really for me. (In fairness one of those was nvidia being nvidia, but the other two are what I consider design deficiencies in Wayland itself)

[-] mmmm@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 hour ago

Despite still not getting why XFCE still haven't moved on from GTK and the GNOME shenanigans on it - to the E libraries so XFCE and Enlightenment do a Dragon Ball Z type of fusion and become the one DE to rule them all, and thinking that the XFCE ui is a bit ass at some places for reasons I can't understand (like having to scroll at some pages on their settings and the misaligned randomly placed stuff in there), I still have respect for their long-time devs and the work they've poured on their project over the years. Pretty sure the common sense will prevail in this case.

[+] Kaligalis@lemmy.world -11 points 2 hours ago

So what? As long as they do proper QA, using AI is fine.

I use Claude Code with the Fable model too. It is pretty good. It still does hallucinate once in a while. And it still does logical fallacies sometimes. But I mitigate that by using the natural neuronal network in my head to analyzing the generated code (and yes, I am the bottleneck).

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 16 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Besides the potential risk of unknowable copyright infringement and the dangers that poses to FLOSS projects as I mentioned in another comment here:

Simply using an AI that's run on a corporate data centers encourages the construction of yet more data centers, with all of the environmental/climate negatives they bring, as well as local harms they induce on the people living near them, such as increased electricity rates.

Using corporate AI directly helps the financial situations of the big tech companies that host them (by boosting usage/user numbers, they are able to attract more investment capital), most of which are owned by right-wing CEO's who are more than willing to collaborate with and fund fascist governments to ensure that they are not regulated in search of both maximum profits. Some of these companies, such as Nvidia, Palantir and Oracle, genuinely appear to be seeking to use these tools for what would previously be considered crackpot conspiracy theory levels of public control and surveillance.

But if someone is absolutely determined to use them regardless, I would hope they either use a locally run LLM, or use a distributed model like AI Horde, as at the very least that does not encourage the construction of corporate data centers nor boost their financial prospects.

[-] sicktriple@programming.dev -5 points 38 minutes ago* (last edited 37 minutes ago)

This virtue signaling needs to stop. Yes, the implications for AI are extremely dangerous and foolhardly. Taking out the pitchforks on Brian, an extremely talented and well regarded engineer in the FOSS world, is completely missing the point. It's akin to blaming drivers of gas vehicles for global warming. The impetus for change are on the systems that put these things in place, not a FOSS dev building a WM. The incentive structure of limitless growth at all costs in the IT sector and the unfettered power projection of capital are to blame here. Until you're willing to do something to stand up to that, then we're all just waving our dicks in the wind here. Posting is not praxis.

We get it, you correctly arrived at the conclusion AI is bad. Welcome to the club. Brian Tarricone is a professional and I have no reservations of the quality of this code. You might as well boycott the linux kernel because guess what, AI generated code is in there too.

[-] patlefort@lemmy.world 2 points 23 minutes ago

Classic "it doesn't affect me" (yet), so it's fine. Maybe you'll change your tune when you run out of drinkable water because data centers are pumping it on top of climate change.

[-] sicktriple@programming.dev -1 points 19 minutes ago* (last edited 18 minutes ago)

How on Earth could you derive "I don't give a shit" from "stand up to systems of oppression, don't castigate individuals"? Do your eyes even work?

This type of name and shaming just doesn't scale. You can't recycle your way out of climate change. This type of thinking places the responsibility on the individual, who by very nature is powerless and who's individual actions have essentially no effect on outcome.

These types of sentiments don't scale well into change, but it certainly allows the person making the post to feel good and to let others know they think the right things.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 2 points 17 minutes ago* (last edited 17 minutes ago)

Refusing to use the tools that profit the very thing we want to stop is part of standing up to it, how is that not obvious?

[-] sicktriple@programming.dev 0 points 15 minutes ago* (last edited 13 minutes ago)

We're not talking about you, you can do whatever you want. I'm talking about publicly naming and shaming developers for using what is now a widely accepted tool.

Creating a callout post isn't standing up to anything, it's just noise. You get special internet points for it, but it doesn't mean anything and again, diverts responsibility from the people who built this fucking Torment Nexus in the first place.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 2 points 9 minutes ago* (last edited 9 minutes ago)

The developer made this public post of their own volition, presumably for others to read and make up their own mind on. It's not naming and shaming to alert others their DE is going to be AI coded in the future, or to point out the potential downfalls of the project adopting AI.

[-] sicktriple@programming.dev 0 points 6 minutes ago

Come on now, you didn't just cross post this over here without adding your own editorializing. We understand your take, it colors your opinion, thats ok. Don't walk it back now. Own it.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 1 points 19 minutes ago* (last edited 11 minutes ago)

You created an account a few minutes ago just to say individuals shouldn't bear any responsibility whatsoever, and worse, that advocating for reducing the problem in a meaningful way is virtue signalling?

[-] sicktriple@programming.dev 0 points 18 minutes ago* (last edited 17 minutes ago)

Your comment just so happened to grasp my attention. There's simply no need to resort to ad hominem.

Is the BP oil spill my fault because I drive a car to work?

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 2 points 11 minutes ago

All of us can try to take steps to reduce our fossil fuel use, either by trying to drive less, using public transport if available, or using an e-bike if viable. Individually the contribution is small, but collectively it can add up to help reduce demand, thus reducing the financial incentive to invest in oil or drill for more.

[-] sicktriple@programming.dev 0 points 8 minutes ago* (last edited 3 minutes ago)

Of course we can, but that's not how history works. People do what they will do based on their conditioning and material conditions. Of course not always, but enough where we can derive conclusions. Shaming and finger wagging isn't going to fix this problem. If you think one sliver of the population of Earth gives one single solitary fuck about reducing their carbon footprint, I have a bridge to sell you.

Look, I respect you and your take, I'm not trying to be an asshole. I just genuinely don't think your approach is a viable method of achieving what you're saying.

[-] ReCursing@feddit.uk -3 points 2 hours ago

"admits to" makes it sounds like it's something horrible

[-] dmajorduckie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 hour ago

It is.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 30 points 2 hours ago

I'm certainly not pleased with it.

[+] ikidd@lemmy.dbzer0.com -12 points 2 hours ago

Nope, you're supposed to run your free project in a manner that we approve of only, please.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 23 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Unknowingly using potentially copyrighted code from an LLM in a FLOSS project opens it up to being sued for infringement, which most FLOSS devs can’t afford to fight, especially in the US’s current extremely pro-corporate courts.

It’s putting a target on your back for down the road when it becomes profitable for patent trolls to use AI to try to scan for copyrighted code on public code bases. Big tech companies could do the same to squash an open source competitor.

[-] ell1e@leminal.space 10 points 2 hours ago

It could also simply be seen as a bad look no matter any risks, potentially the taking of code snippets from other projects that may have a significant code length, without attributing them properly. I find it sad.

[-] TwilightKiddy@scribe.disroot.org 0 points 15 minutes ago

If somebody proposed to build you a house with slave labor free of charge, would you be happy about it?

Since the answer is quite obvious, we can clearly state that even if something is free and beneficial for you, there is a line which you shouldn't cross.

That out of the way, we now have to figure out where to draw this line. It just so happens that for a lot of people using a technology that actively destroys our environment, makes every computiational device more expensive, literally makes it's users dumber, and is built with very ethically questionable methods lies beyond the line.

Oh, if that's not enough, LLMs can kill you if you are psychologically unstable.

this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2026

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