Animals are not people
Will vegans ever learn that taking the moral high ground has never worked for converting anyone?
Fine dude, you're better human than me, congratulations. Call me when you start doing activisms against the carnic industry and not the people or leave me the fuck alone.
Vegans aren't better than you just because you make more harmful choices.
Nobody made you click this thread. You don't want to be left alone, you want people to stop talking about subjects you don't like.
Well, yes.
So?
So too fucking bad. People can discuss subjects that make you uncomfortable. Don't even bother to engage if you're just gonna say "everyone shut the fuck up because I'm here."
It's really bizzare to me that the only takeaway most people are getting is "humans are inherently better than other animals by merit of being human, so any comparison you make to another animal is offensive" and not "maybe repeated forcible impregnation for someone's entire life so I can have an unnecessary food product is a fucked up thing to do". That's the bit that stands out the most I would think?
Humans aren't better in taste and texture tbh
So true
This is the right community for a shit post
"other females"
Yea, it's a pretty safe asumption that they're trying to elevate animals to personhood, but it sure as hell sounds like the reverse of that up first reading.
If they don't use it as a noun it doesn't work, that's why. "Other women" cows aren't women, they are cows or bulls. Female cows, implied, but also the you can't say "other", we aren't cows. If they want to equate women and cows they kiiiinda need to use the bad term I guess? Regardless of your feelings with what they are saying.
It works well. They were going for the dehumanization of women and they achieved it.
...or the humanisation of other life. You know you can just say "well actually I love drinking milk and I can't think of a way to sustain that lifestyle without industrial farming processes" instead of pretending vegans are all misogynists, which doesn't make sense
Not all of them. Just OOP
Do you believe that it's impossible to use the word "female" without it being sexist?
Because this is some take I've seen floating around and it seems like a a serious misunderstanding of the "incels call women females and femoids" dynamic, and for the sake of not getting annoyed by so much stuff you see online it would be a good idea to course correct.
The thing about this meme is you have to look at why it exists
If you disagree with this analysis and have picked up on more that indicates it is actually sexist, go ahead and tell me.
This is why I scan over things on the internet first before actually reading them nowadays. Everything is malformed messaging to increase it's viral-spread quality.
Well put but I wouldn't generalize that vegans see animal lives as equal. That's a wide spread misconception. I know some do. But it's about avoidabilty. I would kill an animal with my bare fucking hands to save a fellow human life if there is no other way. You don't have to think of animals as equal to realise all of this fucked up and no living beeing capeable of feeling emotions deserves to be treated like that.
with the current format of the meme no combination of words exists for them to compare and contrast humans to animals, other than "females."
Thats... Incredibly superficial and shows zero cultural awareness.
One half of the meme is an abortion rights campaign phrase, which is a badly needed campaign because women don't have that right in many places around the world. And it's majorly opposed by conservative men. Those same men also use the term "females" to refer to women in a derogatory way.
only when you get to the end of the text do you realise it exists for 1 messaging purpose
This is ALSO a very common method for that exact same group to pretend their misogynist messaging is covered up when pointed out. They go "it's not about dehumanizing women, it's about veganism bro!" Or "that's not the point, you're digging too deep, keep being triggered lol".
This is a common method to dogwhistle their in-group.
they could have, I suppose, opened with a woman saying "I'm sure glad I'm not artificially inseminated every nine months so milk can be harvested from my body!" Then cut to a picture of a cow in the second panel. It's essentially the same thing.
It's the same surface level message. But using their misogynist worldview to carry the surface level message ALSO reinforces that worldview.
The more you also support that framework, the more the framework is normalized. The more the framework is normalized, the easier it becomes to dehumanize and degrade women.
And arguing about it in bad faith, which they have to, is also what happens a lot. Because when someone points out a dogwhistle, it becomes less effective.
Everything is malformed messaging to increase it's viral-spread quality.
Exactly. But the viral load isn't on the surface. Using a framework to convey normal information supports that framework. The framework is the point, the surface information is a cover.
And using the surface info that appeals to "the enemy" is doubly effective, because it makes your enemy look deranged, scoring you a double win.
One half of the meme is an abortion rights campaign phrase, which is a badly needed campaign because women don’t have that right in many places around the world. And it’s majorly opposed by conservative men. Those same men also use the term “females” to refer to women in a derogatory way.
response to this
The thing about the abortion slogan, 'my body my choice' - it's so powerful because after saying it, it is then used to compare with a multitude of other things; body modification, assault, how people engage with sex and choose their sexual partners. I therefore think the principle came before the use in abortion access messaging.
And it’s majorly opposed by conservative men
Okay, i can definiteky see how this has the format of ome of those "~~take down~~ discredit the initial argument by either taking it to the absurd or highlighting an inherent contradiction in society." format.
But first we have to consider: are many conservatives vegan? This is definitely advocating a vegan, environmentalist, or degrowth agenda.
[edit to add: use of word "carnist" and cross post to vrgan community on the solarpunk instance indicates this isn't conservative]
And after that - if the meme exists to discredit the pro choice attitude, do you feel like it has been sucessfully discredited? The principle hasn't, of course, but it does highlight cognitive disonance.
So with this context, can you see that the meme isn't actually anti-pro-choice, but rather believes it should be applied to animals? That's the long and short of the post in my opinion.
Those same men also use the term “females” to refer to women in a derogatory way.
Too general i think; i know that some people do this, some "very online people"
only when you get to the end of the text do you realise it exists for 1 messaging purpose
This is ALSO a very common method for that exact same group to pretend their misogynist messaging is covered up when pointed out. They go “it’s not about dehumanizing women, it’s about veganism bro!” Or “that’s not the point, you’re digging too deep, keep being triggered lol”.
This is a common method to dogwhistle their in-group.
Do we have such people on lemmy? I see this as a staunchly politically-gatekept community, this Social Medium, and i think conservatives and misogynists like to post on twitter instead. That said, i guess there's mastodon which is more politically diverse.
they could have, I suppose, opened with a woman saying “I’m sure glad I’m not artificially inseminated every nine months so milk can be harvested from my body!” Then cut to a picture of a cow in the second panel. It’s essentially the same thing.
It’s the same surface level message. But using their misogynist worldview to carry the surface level message ALSO reinforces that worldview
Biological men can't get pregnant and don't usually produce milk. That's why it has to be a woman in the meme.
I'll pre-emptively say that the Meme also isn't suggesting women in particular are too ignorant to pay attention to animal rights issues, or something. Just in case you're intending to posit that. It's just that humans in general don't know about these farming practices.
The more you also support that framework, the more the framework is normalized. The more the framework is normalized, the easier it becomes to dehumanize and degrade women
Is your problem with the meme the fact that a woman appears to be the one being criticised? The reader is being criticised (for inaction/unawareness) and is supposed to relate to the woman, as another human. Reader is supposed to be apalled to learn that cows are routinely inseminated.
And if by framework you mean memes, they're plenty normalised. Not much i can do to change that.
That's how you know it's something made to discredit the vegan movement by some angry 4channer
Yeah, I agree with the point about dairy being bad, and it's one that's easy to make without objectifying women.
I swear the Vegan community has to be some kind of anti-vegan psyops.
"Bodily autonomy advocates are all hypocrites and cows are literally people" is such a tone deaf stance perfect for making only enemies.
Bodily autonomy advocates are all hypocrites
This meme is pointing out that some are hypocrites, but is by no means saying that all bodily autonomy advocates are all hypocrites. It is pointing out the hypocrisy of when a person advocates for the bodily autonomy of humans while not caring about the bodily autonomy of other animals.
cows are literally people
I cannot tell where you think that is being implied. You don't have to equate other animals to humans in order to care about them.
When you're working on your messaging, try to remember that
Humans are more important than animals.
Whether you believe it or not, it'll further your goals.
Non-human animals are more important than humans exactly in the same way your sibling is more important than a rando in another country.
The fact you'd pick your sibling before a stranger in a trolley problem doesn't mean you get to exploit, abuse, mistreat them or shoot them for a burger. Same goes for non-human animals.
Humans are more important than nonhuman animals….. to humans. Cows I expect would think their brethren are more important to them than humans.
But more importantly they’re animals who want to live. They have a preference to not die, just as all animals do. They pine for weeks when their children are taken from them. They have very strong maternal instincts.
There was a cow who was rescued from a dairy farm who was pregnant. She gave birth at the sanctuary, and she hid her baby (Valentine because she was born on Valentine’s Day). Every time the sanctuary workers would find Valentine, she’d move her. I can only imagine she was afraid that they would take her. The sanctuary is edgars mission. I can’t remember the name of the mum. Might have been clarabelle?
Remind me again how animals are unthinking automatons?
Humans aren't more important than animals unless you strongly believe might makes right, which I'd hope you don't. Just because you can do something to other animals doesn't mean you should.
Why are humans more important than animals?
Because saying otherwise in your messaging is counterproductive. The people you reach through a social media meme aren't the ones who will respond to that in a way you want.
The "where do you draw the line" animals one is much better messaging.
Is your goal to influence people towards your cause or away from it?
Because they are your target audience - and probably other reasons too.
If you listen to master zuckermuskfuckface, we're all expendable at the most urgently convenient time.
Don't blame all vegans, this is a special level of asshattery.
Where exactly does the meme say cows are people? Where are you called a hypocrite? You instantly draw these conclusions and are offended instead of thinking about the cognitive dissonance. Cows aren't people ... Duh ... So that justifies the described actions? Just something to think about.
Where exactly does the meme say cows are people?
When it says “other females”.
I'm sorry, English isn't my first language. Why does "other females" not include female animals? I don't see it. And even if it's kinda odd, why would you take a meme so literally?
English is not my first language either. But it's quite obvious that the meme equates feminism and anti-speciesism by granting animals the fundamental rights demanded for women. This can only be achieved by humanizing animals or animalizing women; I've chosen to be generous and interpret it in the first way.
My bad, me an 22 others who upvoted my comment were mistaken, as were the 45 who downvoted the meme. Clearly the messaging is fine and not at all tone deaf. Carry on.
No, no I sincerely apologise. I forgot that the majority is always right. Stupid ass vegans and their moral implications.
The comment I made was literally about public perception, so yes the public abso-fucking-lutely decides on this.
Cows aren't people ... Duh ... So that justifies the described actions?
Potentially correct. As we teach all 3 year olds, different things can go into different groups.
"Now that is how you make a vegan shitpost"
What year is it?
Good to see the whackadoodle stereotype being bucked so successfully. Just missing multiple exclamation marks after each sentence.
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