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Carnists be like... (thelemmy.club)
submitted 3 months ago by to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
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cross-posted from: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/60919185

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[–] 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Do you believe that it's impossible to use the word "female" without it being sexist?

Because this is some take I've seen floating around and it seems like a a serious misunderstanding of the "incels call women females and femoids" dynamic, and for the sake of not getting annoyed by so much stuff you see online it would be a good idea to course correct.

The thing about this meme is you have to look at why it exists

  • only when you get to the end of the text do you realise it exists for 1 messaging purpose
  • the message is: "Fun Fact! Did you know that the dairy industry forcefully artificially impregnates cows to ensure they can produce milk all year-round? They're kept pregnant constantly.
  • That's the entire purpose of the meme but to elevate your sympathy, a comparison is drawn between animals and humans. Now, you might not respect animals as much as a vegan does, but obviously you know what a vegan is and that they therefore may well see animals as equal to humans.
  • simply put, with the current format of the meme no combination of words exists for them to compare and contrast humans to animals, other than "females."
  • they could have, I suppose, opened with a woman saying "I'm sure glad I'm not artificially inseminated every nine months so milk can be harvested from my body!" Then cut to a picture of a cow in the second panel. It's essentially the same thing.
  • milk and production of it is obviously pertinent to the female mammal experience. I think this is a completely appropriate time to use the word "females."

If you disagree with this analysis and have picked up on more that indicates it is actually sexist, go ahead and tell me.

This is why I scan over things on the internet first before actually reading them nowadays. Everything is malformed messaging to increase it's viral-spread quality.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    with the current format of the meme no combination of words exists for them to compare and contrast humans to animals, other than "females."

    Thats... Incredibly superficial and shows zero cultural awareness.

    One half of the meme is an abortion rights campaign phrase, which is a badly needed campaign because women don't have that right in many places around the world. And it's majorly opposed by conservative men. Those same men also use the term "females" to refer to women in a derogatory way.

    only when you get to the end of the text do you realise it exists for 1 messaging purpose

    This is ALSO a very common method for that exact same group to pretend their misogynist messaging is covered up when pointed out. They go "it's not about dehumanizing women, it's about veganism bro!" Or "that's not the point, you're digging too deep, keep being triggered lol".

    This is a common method to dogwhistle their in-group.

    they could have, I suppose, opened with a woman saying "I'm sure glad I'm not artificially inseminated every nine months so milk can be harvested from my body!" Then cut to a picture of a cow in the second panel. It's essentially the same thing.

    It's the same surface level message. But using their misogynist worldview to carry the surface level message ALSO reinforces that worldview.

    The more you also support that framework, the more the framework is normalized. The more the framework is normalized, the easier it becomes to dehumanize and degrade women.

    And arguing about it in bad faith, which they have to, is also what happens a lot. Because when someone points out a dogwhistle, it becomes less effective.

    Everything is malformed messaging to increase it's viral-spread quality.

    Exactly. But the viral load isn't on the surface. Using a framework to convey normal information supports that framework. The framework is the point, the surface information is a cover.

    And using the surface info that appeals to "the enemy" is doubly effective, because it makes your enemy look deranged, scoring you a double win.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    One half of the meme is an abortion rights campaign phrase, which is a badly needed campaign because women don’t have that right in many places around the world. And it’s majorly opposed by conservative men. Those same men also use the term “females” to refer to women in a derogatory way.

    response to thisThe thing about the abortion slogan, 'my body my choice' - it's so powerful because after saying it, it is then used to compare with a multitude of other things; body modification, assault, how people engage with sex and choose their sexual partners. I therefore think the principle came before the use in abortion access messaging.

    And it’s majorly opposed by conservative men

    Okay, i can definiteky see how this has the format of ome of those "take down discredit the initial argument by either taking it to the absurd or highlighting an inherent contradiction in society." format.

    But first we have to consider: are many conservatives vegan? This is definitely advocating a vegan, environmentalist, or degrowth agenda.

    [edit to add: use of word "carnist" and cross post to vrgan community on the solarpunk instance indicates this isn't conservative]

    And after that - if the meme exists to discredit the pro choice attitude, do you feel like it has been sucessfully discredited? The principle hasn't, of course, but it does highlight cognitive disonance.

    So with this context, can you see that the meme isn't actually anti-pro-choice, but rather believes it should be applied to animals? That's the long and short of the post in my opinion.

    Those same men also use the term “females” to refer to women in a derogatory way.

    Too general i think; i know that some people do this, some "very online people"

    only when you get to the end of the text do you realise it exists for 1 messaging purpose

    This is ALSO a very common method for that exact same group to pretend their misogynist messaging is covered up when pointed out. They go “it’s not about dehumanizing women, it’s about veganism bro!” Or “that’s not the point, you’re digging too deep, keep being triggered lol”.

    This is a common method to dogwhistle their in-group.

    Do we have such people on lemmy? I see this as a staunchly politically-gatekept community, this Social Medium, and i think conservatives and misogynists like to post on twitter instead. That said, i guess there's mastodon which is more politically diverse.

    they could have, I suppose, opened with a woman saying “I’m sure glad I’m not artificially inseminated every nine months so milk can be harvested from my body!” Then cut to a picture of a cow in the second panel. It’s essentially the same thing.

    It’s the same surface level message. But using their misogynist worldview to carry the surface level message ALSO reinforces that worldview

    Biological men can't get pregnant and don't usually produce milk. That's why it has to be a woman in the meme.

    I'll pre-emptively say that the Meme also isn't suggesting women in particular are too ignorant to pay attention to animal rights issues, or something. Just in case you're intending to posit that. It's just that humans in general don't know about these farming practices.

    The more you also support that framework, the more the framework is normalized. The more the framework is normalized, the easier it becomes to dehumanize and degrade women

    Is your problem with the meme the fact that a woman appears to be the one being criticised? The reader is being criticised (for inaction/unawareness) and is supposed to relate to the woman, as another human. Reader is supposed to be apalled to learn that cows are routinely inseminated.

    And if by framework you mean memes, they're plenty normalised. Not much i can do to change that.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Well put but I wouldn't generalize that vegans see animal lives as equal. That's a wide spread misconception. I know some do. But it's about avoidabilty. I would kill an animal with my bare fucking hands to save a fellow human life if there is no other way. You don't have to think of animals as equal to realise all of this fucked up and no living beeing capeable of feeling emotions deserves to be treated like that.

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