Eh, you really can't see a difference in yugoslavia economy and china?
this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2023
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TBH, I think that Yugoslavia also had too much market, and China has very dangerous level of marketisation.
More to the point, china can be called capitalist. Markets don't imply exploitation, existence of large shareholders expecting profit does though. So china doesn't get socialist market economy title, more like mixed system close to socdems of yore
Eh, it's liberalism and not capitalism that presents the biggest dichotomy with socialism
Can you expand on that? I don't think i understand what you mean
Aside from the question of what state China really is, it is the professed ideology of that state -- and I think we can call this much correct without too much controversy -- that the principal problem with what we call capitalist countries and therefore what we need to counteract in a socialist society is not the existence of private markets or rich people, but the power of wealth to control the state itself, even if the government is procedurally [so at least superficially actually] democratic. You could say the issue is, in so many words, money in politics, with the political-philosophical framework that allows this to fester being liberalism, the openness of the state to the rich using their power to mold society, buy out politicians, etc. Therefore, what matters first and foremost is to prevent this, to ban lobbying, control what private enterprises can broadcast, prevent politicians from being given advantageous positions in the private sector and capitalists (or their pets) being given advantageous positions in the public sector. What is needed to prevent the dilution of democratic power is the destruction of conflicts of interest of this sort and the ability of capitalists to control public opinion. If Marxist ideas about class antagonism are actually correct, there will be a natural trend against private enterprise existing in various sectors over time as a result of this.
Whether China is doing this is another question that I can't really answer.
But that seems idealistic? Rich people absolutely warp economy, but that's not only the issue of their freedom of buying newspapers/politicans.
Imagine average billionaire wanting to buy a yacht: he employs something like 100 people in western world (netherlands/belgium) for 3 years to build the fucker.
But because hypothetical billionaire exploits people (of say china) with average salary of 500 bucks a month to employ workers in europe for 3500 bucks a month, the end result is imperial core gets china products on the cheap and sells dear, so to say, so chinese worker gets doubly fucked, and european worker, while still exploited, can exist.
Even more warping is the fact that to get the power to hire 100 workers and materials for yacht, billionaire has to exploit workers for 100 millions dollars, which means they have to extract 4000 labor.years of chinese worker salary to get a yacht, which they'll use for one month in a year.
That's the problem of worker exploitation, not of the influencing state apparatus.
the problem with yugoslavia is they didn't have a cultural revolution beforehand to destroy their fake ethnic chauvinisms
ik it is different, but they check the same boxes