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[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 205 points 6 days ago

If you need kernel access because you don't trust me not to cheat, I don't really want to play your game.

[-] stsquad@lemmy.ml 26 points 6 days ago

Kernel access isn't needed if they use signed boot and can verify everything running is what it should be.

[-] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago

but don't you need kernel access to verify everything that is running

[-] stsquad@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 days ago

You want to be sure if the integrity of the binaries that are running. That needs a chain of trust from firmware to user space.

[-] RamRabbit@lemmy.world 63 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

'Never trust the client', an adage that modern game developers have apparently forgotten. The only thing one can ultimately trust is the server. Anything client-side, beyond keeping honest people honest, is doomed to failure.

Regular (ie, not kernel-level) anti-cheat is as far as it needs to go. Anything delving past that, such as into kernels, is dumb and an increasing level of security risk for the consumer.

[-] creed10@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago

I'm sure the biggest reason is because running server side anti cheat is much more expensive for them, so they push the burden of computing power onto the consumer instead of footing the bill themselves. I'm sure there are also more nefarious things going on, but ultimately it all comes down to money if you think about it

[-] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Kernel level AC only makes sense if you're not selling games, you're selling platforms for micro transactions.

They don't give a fuck about a 'true' gameplay experience.

They do give a fuck about not being able to groom children into gambling addictions later in life, and making astounding amounts of money while doing so.

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[-] JamonBear@sh.itjust.works 9 points 6 days ago
[-] Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 6 days ago

Signed by EA, of course

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[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 142 points 6 days ago

Look, I don't enjoy EA, they've killed several of my franchises, but what we shouldn't do is demonize them for attempting to migrate to Linux. If a huge gaming company is taking Linux seriously it's something we should celebrate. It means we're making an impact

[-] Bongles@lemmy.zip 41 points 6 days ago

Absolutely. Valve took Linux seriously and it's helped Linux gaming immensely. But you can argue a few things - Valve are private and can still do what they want without an obligation to shareholders. Linux gives them better control of the software on their own devices, so they can tailor the experience exactly how they want. Investing in proton made it so people are willing to buy and use these devices, as the game library becomes nearly identical to windows.

A company like EA, a monolith at this point and historically one of the most profit driven, greedy, arguably scummy companies in gaming, if they're investing in Linux support that means they see dollars and other companies will follow suit. They're specifically looking at their anti cheat software according to this picture which would bring in their competitive shooters, the type of game that is largely missing on Linux.

If their anti cheat supports Linux, others like Easy anti cheat may push to support Linux, and developers like facepunch have even less of a leg to stand on when it comes to ignoring Linux. Unless EA does something like "You must be using our new EA Linux distro for our anti cheat to work" I can't see this being a bad thing.

[-] Sunsofold@lemmings.world 21 points 6 days ago

They aren't being demonized for 'taking Linux seriously.' They are being demonized for the horns, forked tongue, spade-tipped tail, ichorous blood, and subservience to satan that are everything they have done before now. When the guy who moved in at No.1 and raped their daughter, then moved in at No.3 and raped their daughter, and then did it again at No.5 is showing up at your house at No.7, it might be called 'great news' that someone is finally interested in finally renting out that room you've had available for the last several years, but if you let them in, they're just going to rape your daughter. It's what they do.

[-] atrielienz@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

I don't think that people are demonizing them for attempting to migrate to Linux.

I'm pretty sure (because of my own reaction to this news, as well as the other comments) that it's to do with people's dislike of kernel-level anti-cheat and EA's attempt to bring that to Linux.

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[-] FirmDistribution@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

Exactly! This is exactly what we want, more big players on linux.

Of course the kernel level anti-cheat is another thing that needs to be addressed, but a big company acknowledgig the importance of linux is a huge victory to me.

[-] halfwaythere@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago

Speak for yourself. I'd rather shit companies no matter how big or small not be a part of the Linux ecosystem. Do I want development absolutely but not at the sacrifice of core values. EA is a shit company. Full Stop. They have nothing good to provide.

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[-] ivanvector@piefed.ca 64 points 6 days ago

The same EA that was recently sold to and is now part-owned by an investment firm owned by Jared Kushner and with ties to Donald Trump? Yeah, that's not getting kernel access to any of my systems.

[-] ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world 45 points 6 days ago

New rootkit is about to drop. 🥰

[-] who@feddit.org 55 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Friendly reminder that kernel-level anti-cheat can and will be circumvented.

Any game fairness improvement that it provides will be temporary, but whatever malware it allows onto your system (either deliberately or through bugs exploited by third parties) will likely last until you reinstall the whole OS. Depending on the type of malware, it could even persist for the life of the hardware.

Lol, LMAO even.

It's so sweet of them to think that I don't play their games because I play on linux and not because I want EA software in my computer as much as I want to drink a shot of arsenic.

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[-] ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip 33 points 6 days ago

Is it morally correct to apply for the job while deeply under qualified for it and lie on your app to ensure they make no progress at maximum cost? Yes, obviously.

[-] Yankee_Self_Loader@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago

While I agree that it’s morally correct let’s also not be under any delusions that a company as garbage as EA isn’t using ai to screen applications. That makes your applying not only a waste of your time but also resources that are being sucked up by ai

[-] Goretantath@lemmy.world 37 points 6 days ago

Nah, keep that shit off my PC. If i cant play a game due to not having a proprietary backdoor installed then im fine playing other games i can.

[-] tinfoilhat@lemmy.ml 23 points 6 days ago

Perhaps I'm naive about the programming of video games, but why isn't anti-cheat for live service games handled on the server side? We already send mouse movement and keystrokes to the server to display in multi-player environments, why not just do anomaly detection on top of that data stream?

It feels like anti-cheat isn't my problem to solve, or to accommodate for.

[-] xep@discuss.online 18 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

If the game state of every player at any time can be simulated entirely on server then yes, to some degree. This isn't the case for many games that have some degree of client authoritativeness, like Apex Legends. As the other poster mentioned, this doesn't eliminate seeing through walls still, or other cheats that expose game state that players can't normally see but are required for the game to work.

If all games were streamed over the network, like in GeForce Now, then we would perhaps require far less client anticheat.

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[-] Xylight@lemdro.id 12 points 6 days ago

i'm a proponent of server-side anticheat, but there is a few reasons games do it client side.

  • server-side anticheats depend on heuristics and "checks" determining if a player is doing something "impossible".
  • one example would be checking if the player somehow has perfect accuracy on every player before even shooting, or if the player moves further than is possible in a given timespan (these are very simple examples).
  • this is MUCH more difficult to make accurate, since these checks are fallible to network conditions or other hiccups.
  • most online games opt for client-side anticheat since it lets the devs just "trust the client" easier. it can also detect things that would be impossible server-side, like X-ray (seeing other players through walls. this is impossible to detect server side).
[-] definitemaybe@lemmy.ca 6 points 6 days ago

Seeing players through walls can be solved in other ways, though. At least partially. One fix is to only draw models that the player has line-of-sight to, often with out of LOS models drawn behind the camera. Then, pop them back into place a frame before they are expected to be in LOS. That eliminates a lot of the advantages of wall hacks and model hacks. (Model hacks add a giant stick out of the front of player faces so you can see what they are looking at and, from the size/colour/whatever, how far away they are.)

Server side, you can also measure reaction time net latency to determine overly consistent or superhuman reaction times. If players aim to headshots in under 0.3s consistently, then they're hacking.

And rootkits can be beat anyway, so they're pointless, like by ruining a VM or by injecting the cheat at the bootloader, before the kernel.

And there are hardware man-in-the-middle cheats, with video capture cards sending a video stream to a companion computer running an image processing model that injects mouse commands back to the host computer.

I could keep going. There are so many ways. Trusting the client is impossible, trying to force it is unethical (requiring rootkits), and it doesn't even stop cheating! Just give up and move to server-side detection, or go back to community servers that can self moderate with human admins.

And, imho, don't even ban the cheaters—instead, flag their account to be exclusively placed into cheater-only games (with bots for filler, if needed to keep queue times roughly matched to avoid player detection). ngl, younger me (who had more time for this kind of thing) would have loved the challenge of trying to out-hack other players using cheats.

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[-] KeenFlame@feddit.nu 6 points 5 days ago

Yes and I am a game designer.

They want to control your data and device fully

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[-] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 23 points 6 days ago

Hopefully, Linux developers will create a tool to blacklist DRMed products from being installed. I don't want to unwittingly install Enigma, Denuvo, Easy Anti-Cheat, and other foul things onto my machine.

[-] IEatDaFeesh@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

Fuck. Even if I never play EA games they might still share this anti cheat with other companies. X_x aaaaaghhh

But to be fair, if a company partners with EA their game is probably shit.

[-] just_another_person@lemmy.world 22 points 6 days ago

This is certainly driven by upcoming Valve hardware. I don't think any of the smaller devices out in the wild really sell enough units to make them go this far.

[-] RamRabbit@lemmy.world 29 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Probably. But also just wider Linux adoption. Over 8% of English-speaking Steam users are on Linux now. That number is already at a point where it makes sense to cater to them. Who doesn't want 8% more sales? Numbers much smaller than that drive quarterly decisions.

(The large disparity between English speaking and not is the Chinese market. Linux has near 0% adoption there. The dip in the last month, for example, corresponds to a single-month doubling of the number of Chinese users in the Steam stats; which also suggests major measurement errors coming out of China.)

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[-] scala@lemmy.ml 17 points 6 days ago

No thanks EA. You're on my never buy list.

[-] ilickfrogs@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago

Incredibly happy to see the option, but I ain't gonna run that shit.

[-] Reygle@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

Guys guys guys- The evil corporation is getting on board. Things really ARE that bad.

[-] atrielienz@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago

I'm still not gonna buy games with anti-cheat, EA.

[-] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 9 points 6 days ago

Ew. Do not want.

[-] muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 days ago

Wasn’t windows on arm designed specificly to break this capability? Linux won’t ever let it in but for windows I’m pretty sure this was one of this ARM things.

[-] markz@suppo.fi 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I don't and wouldn't really play the kind of games that use it, but nice. Though also I don't know what running this on proton means. Kernel level is not nice.

[-] RamRabbit@lemmy.world 23 points 6 days ago

I don't believe there is a viable path for kernel-level anti-cheat on Linux (thank god). What most developers have done is enable normal anti-cheats on Linux, even if they use kernel-level ones on Windows. This is the path they seem to be going down.


Ever since CrowdStrike, I'm a bit amazed Microsoft hasn't taken a hard stance on the gaping security hole that is kernel-level anti-cheat. It's bonkers such is expected or even allowed just to play a game.

[-] markz@suppo.fi 8 points 6 days ago

I'm not that surprised. It's hard to make a harmful practice stop when it's backed by so much money.

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[-] regdog@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

I don't want EA games on Linux. They can stay on Windows for all that I care.

[-] RamRabbit@lemmy.world 27 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I'm looking forward to it. Not because I will buy more EA games, but because it will remove one of the few barriers left for even wider Linux adoption.

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this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2026
405 points (98.3% liked)

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