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Honda unveils new electric moped cheaper than gasoline equivalent, no motorcycle license needed (electrek.co)
submitted 6 months ago by [M] to c/micromobility@lemmy.world
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Honda is doubling down on small electric two-wheelers with the launch of a new budget-friendly model that undercuts its own...

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[–] 96 points 6 months ago

:)

set to go on sale in the Japanese market next month

:(

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    [–] 42 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    "No motorcycle license" where?

    Presumably Japan, which appears to be the only market in which this will be sold. In the US this would absolutely fall into the legal limbo where most low-output electric two wheeled things are inevitably mired, which will result in most/all states refusing to plate them.

    If you're going to have to ride dirty anyhow, you may as well just rice out a Surron and at least have a hope of outrunning the cops on it.

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  • [–] 26 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    In California, the largest motorcycle market in the USA, this would be regulated as a moped (CVC Section 406), since it is electric, has a motor less than 3 kW (4 HP in old money), and a top speed of less than 30 MPH (48 kph).

    Riders wouldn't need an M1 motorcycle license, but instead an M2 moped license would suffice. An M1 license allows riding anything that needs an M2 license, such as this moped. The process for an M2 is classroom instruction, and then a brief practical exam. There is no annual registration for mopeds, but there is a one-time plate fee, to obtain a plate from the DMV. There is no insurance requirement for mopeds.

    A moped can be ridden in either traffic lanes and bike lanes (but not shoulders, which only bicycles are permitted to use). Whereas bicycles are obligated to use a bike lane when present (with a few obvious exceptions), a moped is not forced to use a bike lane. When riding in a traffic lane, a moped must keep to the right-most lane if slower than all other traffic.

    IANAL, but all of this can be verified in the CVC. The result is that mopeds (a vestige of the 1970s oil crisis) could absolutely make a comeback if priced correctly, since ebikes already provide similar mobility.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (2 children)

    yeah, my motor is 750W (right under 1HP), top speed 28. it has a throttle so it's class 2 electric, no license needed.

    i really want to figure out how to change the max speed on the throttle to something lower so i can get better mileage and maybe go someplace a little further, but i'm not entirely sure how the math maths on that one (friction and air resistance y'know) and not have to buy an extra battery, but we'll see

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    If you have a question about your own ebike and not the Honda moped in the OP's post, you should start a new post so that other people can try to answer.

    That said, at least in California and many other states, 28 MPH is not allowed on a Class 2 ebike. Only a Class 3 ebike can do 28 MPH, but a throttle is not allowed on a Class 3. Class 2 tops out at 20 MPH.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    oh i've got the manual and all that, i just can't get the change to commit for some reason. and you're right, it's set at 20. i've got a flat and it's been raining for a while so i haven't taken her out for a month or so. brain fog and all that.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Why not just go easier on the throttle? Or drop it to a lower level you program to 12mph at the lowest or second lowest?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    because i don't want to have to pay that close attention to "am i going 12 mph" the whole damn way and the "cruise control" functions are a joke, just turning those on drains half the battery

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 6 months ago

    Seems odd that CC itself would use much extra power: What's your ride? My EP2 has CC and I have not noticed any impact on battery using it vs not using it. In fact, keeping CC at a lowish speed seems to prolong the battery life a bit on mine, even with no pedaling assuming all other things equal.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Fun fact, the M2 licence in California (at least when I took it) uses the same low speed precision turning course that motorcycles do, which is, ironically, even harder to navigate on an automatic transmission moped. I only managed it through a gas and brake, gas and brake, jerky start and stop to keep my speed down enough to make the tight turns.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    New Zealand is similar, on a standard car license, you can ride a 50cc scooter (up to 2kw I think and max 50km/h). Anything bigger/faster requires a motorcycle license. I really hope we get these too!

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    In Japan it requires a 原付 (< 50 cc engine-attached (literally)) license which, as the article points out, is easier to get than even a regular driving license. Japan has normal vehicle (which includes mopeds but not motorcycles) in at-only and manual+auto, gentsuki (moped), 125cc, 250cc, 400cc, and > 400cc motorbikes (also in manual and auto flavors), and then various truck and equipment licenses.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    In Germany people who were born before 1980 can ride a 25kph moped without a license, but those are kind of useless.

    However a 45kph moped only needs a really easy license and if you have the car license you automatically get it, so as long as you are allowed to drive cars you can drive scooters like this too.

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    • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    If it wasn't for the icy roads around here during the winter, I would absolutely love one of these.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Wondering when they'll start making two-wheel drive motorcycles. Something trivially easy for EVs. Not so for gas.

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  • [–] 20 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    They exist. They are specialty, and expensive, and their handling characteristics are decidedly strange. Especially at road speeds. To the very last one they're intended for use in mucky off-road conditions.

    See also:

    The Rokon Trail-Breaker (not street legal, at least not here)

    The Yamha WR450F 2-Trac

    Also the various Christini 2WD conversions, which have been around for ages.

    I believe there are also some concept street bikes from the Japanese makers with proposed electric/hybrid part time 2WD systems mostly intended to allow you to launch the things off the line faster without flipping over onto your arse.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I've taken a few dirt bikes for a spin but never a motorcycle. Can you describe what makes the handling strange?

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    On a traditional motorcycle (or bicycle, for that matter) the rear wheel pushes the front. A two wheel drive bike allows the front wheel to pull also, which if you have the front wheel turned significantly and then power is applied to it, i.e. under acceleration, it tends to make the whole bike try to make itself stand upright unexpectedly and throw you to the outside. This has the net effect of widening your turn, which at speed is one of those things that's likely to result in you making friends with a tree. Or oncoming traffic, depending which way you were turning relative to the road.

    You can already wash out the front wheel on a bike by braking, but on a two wheel drive machine there's also the new and exciting possibility of washing out the front under acceleration, as well. Losing traction on the rear while the front is still pulling in slippery conditions, i.e. those where a two wheel drive machine is most likely to be used, winds up with both wheels ultimately pulling in different directions, especially if the rear hooks up again unexpectedly. This will probably result in an unrecoverable tip-over unless your bike is very light or you're going very slowly. This may go some way towards explaining why that Rokon bike linked above has a top speed of 35 MPH.

    You can sidestep all of this malarkey by getting a sidecar equipped bike with a driven wheel on the sidecar like the various Ural models. These have a freewheeling front like a traditional motorcycle, but a solid axle in the rear that drives both the bike's wheel and the sidecar's wheel for snow traction. It's certainly not impossible to tip over a sidecar bike (especially on the side that hasn't got the sidecar attached to it) but it's certainly a damn sight harder than a bike without one.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Great explanation, thank you. I "felt" the forces and get how it'd cause problems.

    If money grew on trees I'd totally get sidecar bike. I'm sure my dog would love it

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago*

    Also having a powered front wheel can result in you easily losing front wheel traction while accelerating out of a turn, which means you just lost side to side stability at the front while in a lean and you simply fall over.
    I know that one from experience on an electric (kick) scooter :)

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Very interesting! I'm thinking that the disadvantages you outline are a problem that could be overcome with experience. After all, by definition AWD gives an extra lever of control to the rider. Obviously the crashes by new riders have to be factored into the cost-benefit equation.

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    • [–] 8 points 6 months ago

    Gogoro has had this since 2015: https://www.gogoro.com/gogoro-network/

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    [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I hope manufacturers can come out with something with about twice the power of this, with a dual-sport dirt bike configuration, while still being fairly inexpensive.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child)

    I picked up a lightly used cake OSA for 750$ last year.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    I'm happy for you but I'm finding on the manufacturers website that they want about $10,000 for the street legal 55mph version

    Seems cool. I'm hoping that some day soon we might see something electric for less than a third the price.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago*

    Mines the 28mph one. Which is fine for where I am. Only a couple roads with a 35+mph speed limit on them in my town anyway.

    I also bought it used off of some rich yuppie who had it sitting in his garage for years, with less than 200 miles on it. I really got lucky. My friend and I picked up 2 of them for $2700!

    There is a firmware mod out there for them im thinking about getting that turns the 28mph ones into 55mph (theres like a 1 hp difference between the motors they used) first project is setting up a power inverter for it, though!

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    • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    Is it riddled with surveillance like their car-sized EVs?

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    [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    It would be nice if they offered that in the US. I know the market is different here, but I think there is a market for these types of vehicles in city and rural area both. Just not the charging stations, probably.

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    [–] 2 points 6 months ago*

    The EM1: e in different regions, they drop half the price over a year or two by quite a lot probably due to the short range and speed

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    [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Hrm, that might be good for my wife. We still have to get her her license (we're screwed in the Japanese countryside if I get injured), but I think she'd rather drive that into the village than a car.

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