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[-] Rothe@piefed.social 123 points 2 months ago

That is not what historians say at all. That is what US "documentaries" says, and Hollywood, but historians have never said that.

[-] Akasazh@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago

I don't think I've ever read the word 'sexy' in my entire curriculum.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

It's also been the pop cultural understanding of her since Virgil.

[-] Speculater@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

Mainly because it wasn't historically accurate*

[-] Nomad@infosec.pub 98 points 2 months ago

I know that's not the point, but a women than speaks nine languages and is powerful and independent is what my wet dreams are made from.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago

That's suspected to be part of why she was seen as so sexy. Rather than just being some conventionally hot chick, she was incredibly smart, cunning, charismatic, fun, and powerful. Julius Caesar and Mark Antony both seemed to see her as a kindred spirit and found her power and intelligence attractive.

And I find that too to be quite interesting because Rome of this time was a time and place of fairly strong cultural misogyny when it came to women in power. And yet two of the most powerful men in Rome of the time clearly were more than fine with her being powerful.

[-] PugJesus@piefed.social 13 points 2 months ago

That’s suspected to be part of why she was seen as so sexy. Rather than just being some conventionally hot chick, she was incredibly smart, cunning, charismatic, fun, and powerful. Julius Caesar and Mark Antony both seemed to see her as a kindred spirit and found her power and intelligence attractive.

"Mark Antony"

"Kindred spirit"

Caesar was definitely cultured af, and his attraction to Cleopatra was definitely predicated at least in part by the fact that she was an extremely well-educated and cultured woman... but Mark Antony was acknowledged by everyone as... cut from cruder cloth, shall we say? He was famously athletic and handsome, and a partyboy, though.

Caesar-Cleopatra = Power Couple

Antony-Cleopatra = Himbo and Girlboss :p

And I find that too to be quite interesting because Rome of this time was a time and place of fairly strong cultural misogyny when it came to women in power. And yet two of the most powerful men in Rome of the time clearly were more than fine with her being powerful.

Funny enough, cultural chauvinism might be a factor here over gender chauvinism. The Romans didn't mind other peoples being ruled by women, just like they didn't mind other peoples being ruled by monarchs. It was only ROMANS who were NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, to be ruled by women OR monarchs!

At several points in Rome's history, they back or even install female monarchs to rule over non-Romans when the female monarch is the choice best suited to Roman interests.

Of course, Romans also struggled with their own misogyny to some degree - I'm reminded of the jurist Gaius, a fairly conservative legal writer, musing that there was no actual, practical reason for laws restricting women's legal rights in the non-political sphere, as women were manifestly intellectual equals. On the other hand, there are other Roman jurists in the same period who squawked that it was RIGHT and NATURAL for women to have reduced rights because they WEREN'T intellectual equals.

All societies, I suppose, struggle with their own prejudices. It's always interesting when you see it, though.

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

You are part of why lemmy is great.

[-] PugJesus@piefed.social 4 points 2 months ago

Just trying to do my part for the Fediverse! o7

[-] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Tbf also women that are more akin to tators are also very dreamy

[-] MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca 22 points 2 months ago
[-] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 months ago

'Po-ta-toes, The Gaffer's delight, and rare good ballast for an empty belly. But you won't find any, so you needn't look. But be good Sméagol and fetch me some herbs, and I'll think better of you. What's more, if you turn over a new leaf, and keep it turned, I'll cook you some taters one of these days. I will: fried fish and chips served by S. Gamgee. You couldn't say no to that.'

[-] GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

I needed to see a Sam Gamgee quote in the wild today. Thank you.

[-] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 3 points 2 months ago

I can't for the life of me have any inkling of what you're trying to say.

[-] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Wait till you hear she was also hot

[-] arrow74@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 months ago

Don't forget incredibly inbred 😍

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[-] verdi@tarte.nuage-libre.fr 64 points 2 months ago

I think someone is confusing Hollywood with historians, which is unsurprising in the anglosphere... 

[-] ThunderChunk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 45 points 2 months ago

Powerful women are very sexy

[-] sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 months ago

Historians: "No not like that"

[-] AnarchoEngineer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 2 months ago

Why wouldn’t a historian think a capable multilingual strategist and leader (who took a great interest in the health and welfare of her people including supporting citizens of disparate faiths and cultures) was sexy? How is any of that not sexy?

[-] GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

She can be both. In fact, I think it makes her even sexier knowing she was such a singularly competent and effective head of state.

[-] orioler25@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

"Historians."

[-] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 12 points 2 months ago

And its a shame cause knowing those things only makes it worse

[-] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Is the meme suggesting those things aren’t sexy?

[-] MBM@lemmings.world 6 points 2 months ago

It's suggesting she has value beyond that

[-] Railcar8095@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago
[-] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

-Giggles in multiple languages-

[-] Contentedness@lemmy.nz 10 points 2 months ago
[-] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

Competency and collectedness are incredibly sexy.

[-] olafurp@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Yeah but have you considered the what type of golden pussy got both Julius Ceasar and Mark Anthony hooked?

[-] TomArrr@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

One that commands armies in nine languages?

[-] olafurp@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Tongue game you say, interesting...

[-] PugJesus@piefed.social 5 points 2 months ago

Caesar was a notorious philanderer who more or less had his pick of women wherever he went. His affair with Cleopatra, however, was unusually enduring and powerful. I doubt she fucked better than every noblewoman and prostitute in Rome (which, considering Caesar's reputation, he may very well have all tried). More likely is the combination of circumstance and Cleopatra's own sophisticated and educated outlook.

Caesar was, famously, a great appreciator of the humanities, with even noted enemies like Cicero praising his genuine love of literature and intellectual pursuits, and he had a vast collection of art from across the world, even before he met Cleopatra. Roman society, especially during the Mid and Late Republic, could be a bit... ambivalent about artistic interests like that. On one hand, civilization - Romans very much appreciated the work of specialist skills and knowledge. On the other hand, shouldn't you be doing something PRACTICAL, senator?

But Cleopatra is not only Graeco-Egyptian (the Ptolemies were mostly Greek, but Cleopatra took great efforts to identify herself with the Egyptian people, including being the first Ptolemaic ruler to actually fucking speak Egyptian), which means she has a somewhat... broader-minded view of art, but also a queen. She is used to being able to enjoy and appreciate refined things. On top of that, she was quite famously cultured even by the standards of royalty, and intelligent.

Caesar was in his early 50s at the time, but had only just started going bald. Caesar, who was famously handsome and vain, did not take this well. So this guy who has spent most of his life surrounded by UTTER PHILISTINES, or at least men who largely do not appreciate art on the same level he does, meets a young, beautiful, powerful woman who is (apparently) deeply interested in him and shares his interests on a similar level, and at a time in his life when he's beginning to feel the weight of age. Maybe it should be no surprise that he took to her exceptionally well, but it's definitely more than just being good in the sack!

[-] Aeao@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Factual historians : and she wasn’t even that sexy

[-] billwashere@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

I don’t know… intelligent, powerful women are kinda sexy…

[-] joan@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

whatever gets people to pay for their documentary

[-] Taleya@aussie.zone 5 points 2 months ago

Alternate take: romans are really really easily lead about by the penis

[-] pyre@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

who are these "historians"? does that word mean different things in different places?

[-] untorquer@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

And what about herstorians? Did they die off in some accident?

[-] Pacattack57@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Iirc they have 3D models of cleopatra and she is ugly ash. Maybe for being an inbred royal she was attractive.

[-] HaunchesTV@feddit.uk 13 points 2 months ago

Back then people had only seen like five women, so it was just a small sample size.

[-] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 5 points 2 months ago

Maybe she was sexy in other ways?

[-] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 7 points 2 months ago

Both Julius Cesar and Mark Anthony wrote high praise for her mouth. Now whether that means her oratory skills or something else... it's anyone's guess.

[-] Sivecano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago
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this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2026
531 points (99.3% liked)

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