When you accidentally create an anti-capitalist game : memes

[-] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 36 points 3 weeks ago

Oddly enough the point of Fallout was apparently (according to Tim Cain) never meant to be "capitalism bad" but rather "war bad".

Of course any contemporary critique of war doesn't work without a critique of capitalism so that of course ended up being a feature of the games regardless of intention.

[-] demerit@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 3 weeks ago

Tim Cain was just one dude in a team full of creators, and they all frequently disagreed about various aspects -see the whole ghoul thing and if FEV was supposed to be a necessary component (it would make more sense since Ghouls in Fallout 1 were a bit more rare and mainly just focused on Necropolis/Vault 12/Bakersfield - even Fallout 2 had all ghouls claim heritage to the ghoul exodus post-destruction of Necropolis by the Master)

Tim Cain claiming "his" work to be an anti-capitalist masterpiece is also not conductive to his career (especially when the franchise is under the wings of Bethesda and Amazon)

The Followers of the Apocalypse who are portrayed as allies against the master, are explicitly stated to be anarcho-communists, so somebody on that creative team likely was not a fan of capitalism.

[-] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 3 weeks ago

Where are they explicitly stated to be anarcho-communists? This is the first I'm hearing of it.

[-] demerit@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 3 weeks ago

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/an-archive-of-josh-sawyers-formspring-from-april-2010-through-march-2013-over-1-mb-of-text.128571/

The Followers of the Apocalypse: Libertarians, socialists, communists, or greens?"

Joshua Sawyer: "They vary significantly, but range from anarcho-syndicatists to socialists to communists.

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 weeks ago

Tim Cain stopped contributing to the story after the first game so a lot of what he says about the franchise can be taken with a grain of salt.

[-] happybadger@hexbear.net 26 points 3 weeks ago

M'lorddddddddddd, thy serfs are preaching heresy. They say they needeth not lords. I made a tapestry called "we needeth not lords" and they misinterpreted itttttttt

[-] Bronstein_Tardigrade@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 3 weeks ago

The board game, Monopoly, did the inverse. It (The Landlord's Game) was created as an anti-landlord, pro tax-the-rich, game, but later rule changes made it a celebration of greed. In true capitalist fashion, Lizzie Magie, the inventor of the game, got shafted out of any monetary reward by Parker Bros.

[-] huf@hexbear.net 15 points 3 weeks ago

i like how a lot of the house rules people play with try to soften the inhumanity of the game, which just means the game takes longer to get to the same conclusion: one player controlling everything, the rest having nothing.

it models social democracy :D

[-] big_spoon@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 3 weeks ago

hitman: world of assasination

you only get peace after killing the most influential capitalist circle

[-] syzygy@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 3 weeks ago

Did anyone else notice that the new Fallout series seems strangely pro-communist?

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Hollywood writers are unionized and overwhelmingly left wing. Whenever they’re left to their own devices they always create works that express left wing thought, such as what happened with Andor recently.

Whether that expression of leftist thought is placatory is another argument altogether, but the people making the art are absolutely all socialists or syndicalists at the least.

[-] Jarmund@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago

Andor was an anomaly in today's time. And boy how a good one it was!

But now star wars will be about how the empire were always the good guys and just misunderstood /s

[-] chgxvjh@hexbear.net 4 points 3 weeks ago

Most of the popular new streaming shows are strangely pro-Communist.

[+] KoloradoKoolAid75@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

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[-] agentant@hexbear.net 5 points 3 weeks ago

Why is Christ Avellone tweeting this?

[-] demerit@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 weeks ago

He is a Libertarian and musk wasnt as openly nazi in 2021

[-] agentant@hexbear.net 7 points 3 weeks ago

That's very upsetting to hear ):

[-] demerit@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 weeks ago

Most of the "cult classic" games were created by libertarians - that was just the political scene of the 90s. Socialism at the time was believed to be a dead ideology of the "past". So Poison Ivy style environmentalism (see why for example DnD druids are neutral/good despite wanting to pol pot urban society) / feminism and libertarianism were the only other "left" leaning position widespread

[-] lil_tank@hexbear.net 4 points 3 weeks ago

Sorry but I don't do death of the author, Fallout is officially reactionary now

[-] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 3 weeks ago

Since Bethesda took over Fallout is just "apolitical" centrist slop that doesn't actually want to make social commentary. It exists as a power fantasy simulator like all Bethesda games with no identity or substance to make the experience worthwhile.

[-] NothingButBits@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 3 weeks ago

I don't know about the old games, but from Fallout 3 onwards, they always had anti-communism in it.

[-] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 3 weeks ago

The first game doesn't dabble much in ideology; its big talking point is that war is bad and everything else in the game is meant to revolve around this. The second game is more geared toward anti-fascism. Neither really touch on communism as an ideology or a system in practice.

Fallout 3 is centrist slop that simultaneously treats communism and anti-communism as being equally bad because it doesn't have anything it actually wants to say.

New Vegas doesn't touch on communism at all but it does offer some stark critiques of liberal democracy and colonialism (and capitalism of course) as well as Caesar's weird Primitivist philosophy resulting from his inability to understand Hegel, which in turn attacks conservatism and similar Right-wing ideologies.

Fallout 4 doesn't have anything to say about anything other than "slavery bad" and that's about it. Like FO3 it's just centrist slop with no political literacy whatsoever.

I don't know about the other two games because nobody really played them.

[+] KoloradoKoolAid75@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

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[-] FuckBigTech347@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago

Same. I tried getting into TES4 but couldn't make it past half the game because I found it too boring and watered down compared to Morrowind.
In FO4 I made it past the beginning area before I got bored and quit.
I already know that TES6 & FO5 will be yet another Loot Hoarder Sim with a "You are the chosen one" Story and MMO-Tier Quests.
They've been making bad Morrowind clones for 2 decades now with no end in sight, and that's how they'll probably die lol.

[+] KoloradoKoolAid75@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

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[-] FuckBigTech347@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago

Lol, FO4 kind of replaced Skyrim in that regard since it's literally just the Skyrim build of Gamebryo with a facelift and some improvements.

They wanted Starfield to be the next big sandbox game engine, but nobody wants Oblivion in Space.

The only big-Name Game I have any amount of faith in is HL3, although I don't expect much.

[+] KoloradoKoolAid75@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

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[-] FuckBigTech347@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

they released a side game that only a small percentage of the players could play—which is based on the leaked story of E3

I'm assuming you're referring to Epistle 3 by Laidlaw? In what way is HL:A based on that? I thought HL:A takes place before HL2 (minus the ending scene).

Personally I've come to terms with the fact that we'll probably never get a proper continuation of EP2 years ago. Like I said, I don't expect much from Valve at this point.
If the game comes out and it doesn't have bad writing and features interesting and innovative gameplay I'll be pleasantly surprised.
If the game comes out and it not only has interesting gameplay but also continues to follow the Story that EP2 set up I'll be very pleasantly surprised.
If the game comes out and it's overall OK but they retcon a bunch of stuff and make it so Aperture and the Borealis are no longer relevant, or worse, abandon the storyline for something completely different, then it's time to forget and play some more indie games! :)

Right now I'm mostly interested in what their current Half-Life Project even looks like.

[-] commiewolf@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago

Game of Thrones season 1 released 7 months before Skyrim

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 3 weeks ago

I don’t know about the other two games because nobody really played them.

Fallout Tactics is generally "we will save you from the destruction (by conquering you)" tactics game except it's actually way better as a game than usually admitted, it just got smashed in reviews because it was not actual Fallout 3 when everyone was hyped for one. Also Broterhood in it is least hitlerite of all its versions since it's actually inclusive (you can have ghouls, supermutants, robots, deathclaws) and everyone is getting high in random moment, though the armed paladin taking psycho while on watch was pretty alarming.

[-] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago

I kinda prefer the Brotherhood to be fascist-coded since that is the logical conclusion of their philosophy and they've always canonically been assholes.

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago

The Followers of the Apocalypse in New Vegas and 2 are essentially communist and presented in a good light.

[-] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 weeks ago

The Followers of the Apocalypse are a volunteer aid group. There's nothing really communist about them; they're altruists and pacifists motivated primarily by moralism. They don't appear interested in the economic structure of societies, the use of labor, or who owns the modes of production. They're "socialist" in a purely idealist sense.

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

True, but there isn’t much of a society left. Productive forces don’t really exist beyond artisanal and sustenance production, and neither does organized or capitalist modes of production. There isn’t anything to really organize, let alone lead.

They live in commune societies where the collective own the means of production, reject money, they attempt to elevate tribal groups through education, they’re anti-fascist and only maintain a tenuous relationship with the liberal NCR, and attempt to recruit through their outreach.

Society tetters between tribal and early feudal at best, and even then barely. What is a socialist to do in a “society” like that? Volunteer outreach is all that’s left, not like there’s much to do a “revolution” against.

[-] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago

True, but there isn’t much of a society left. Productive forces don’t really exist beyond artisanal and sustenance production, and neither does organized or capitalist modes of production. There isn’t anything to really organize, let alone lead.

This would be true if they didn't literally come from the NCR - which does in fact have an organized, capitalist mode of production.

The reality is they're simply not Marxists. FotA are closer to Christian missionaries that do charity work.

They live in commune societies where the collective own the means of production, reject money, they attempt to elevate tribal groups through education, they’re anti-fascist and only maintain a tenuous relationship with the liberal NCR, and attempt to recruit through their outreach.

Which makes them closer to utopian socialism rather than full-blown communism.

Society tetters between tribal and early feudal at best, and even then barely. What is a socialist to do in a “society” like that? Volunteer outreach is all that’s left, not like there’s much to do a “revolution” against.

Again this argument would make more sense if the NCR, the Strip, and Caesar's Legion didn't exist. Complex civilizations are coming back and they're reviving exploitative modes of production such as the imperialism of the NCR, the Strip's more basic capitalist model, and the Legion's slave economy.

[-] demerit@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

They’re “socialist” in a purely idealist sense.

I mean they are kinda supposed to be - this is how their leader Nicole speaks/quotes about her in Fallout 1

They claim to want peace, like us. But anyone who disagrees with them just disappears. Their Dark God is not what he seems, believe me.

We never give up hope. We never will, even though most live by the gun these days. And we are concerned with the Children of the Cathedral...

We don't worship so much as follow a set of principles. We want to bring peace back to this wasteland. The world tends toward destruction, so we try to make a difference

After my parents were killed by a marauders, it was time the killing stopped. It's our goal to make this land the way it used to be, before the war.

Nicole is our leader. She's compelled by insight and spirituality to bring peace to a world broken by war.

See the absence of any socialist big words? They are much more christian moralistic in nature.

[-] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago

Exactly. They're a morality movement rather than a political or economic faction. This is a big reason as to why they keep taking Ls from the NCR and BoS.

[-] Redcuban1959@hexbear.net 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Fallout 1 and 2 had only vaguely anti-communism stuff (stuff from the old world), the start of fallout 1 with a cutscene of US troops killing journalists/guerrilla fighters in Canada (In Fallout Tactics theres a joke about leftist guerrilla infighting in Canada over naming their organization). Bizarrely the Soviets and Americans were close enough in the Fallout universe that some russians still lived in America before the war.

[-] demerit@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 weeks ago

Bizarrely the Soviets and Americans were close enough

The implication was always that the Sino-Soviet split caused the USA to choose the USSR over China. The Soviet Union in black isle's fallout was more like "successful" revisionist post-glasnost state that diminish in its power - which Bethesda kinda forgot and given how fallout 4 was written when the whole crimea thing was popping off, the USSR became a useful enemy to use again.

[-] Valarie@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 3 weeks ago

I thought the entire point of the communism bad stuff was to make it as over the top and insane as possible as a criticism of the anti communist narrative but that may have just been my interpretation

Especially things like liberty prime just being so obviously insane

[-] demerit@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 3 weeks ago

The McCarthyism aspect was not really that present pre-Fallout 3, China was never really discussed at all - beyond that they nuked america, neither was its ideology. Fallout as a franchise got flanderized hard with the whole 50s Americana, in fact the first two games major 50s influence was mainly in art deco architecture a la Chrysler building.

[-] lefthanded1990@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago

OG Deus Ex I would say, though I need someone with more energy to expand on this in case they agree with me. It shows some of the worst aspects of capitalism at the very least.

Memes