A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
Loans aren't the problem. Insane loan debt is a symptom of an unsustainable higher education system.
You can learn a lot on your own, but many careers require a formal education (medicine, law, engineering, etc.). By itself, banning student loans within our current system merely makes it harder for poorer people to attain those careers.
Loans that can't be discharged are the problem. Tuition went out the roof when universities discovered this gold mine.
Student loans seem to be a massive part of the problem of out of control tuition increases. The National Bureau of Economic Research published this study in 2016 that showed that changes to the Federal Student Loan Program accounted for the majority of the 106% increase in tuition between 1987 and 2010. Whether that's some right-wing scheme to divert attention from reduction of states' funding of public universities I haven't looked into, but it seems to me that it's at least a significant factor on its face.
So education for the wealthy only? Bugger off.
No. I predict we would revert to the status quo of 20-100 years ago, with very affordable state-run schools providing excellent education, and high price private schools catering to the rich. Cheap schools got expensive because we allowed the for-profit student loan industry to run wild.
Assuming nothing is done to curb the recent capitalist tendencies of universities to inflate tuition then yeah it would be mostly restricted to the wealthy. It might be possible that market forces would coerce them to become cheaper again in order to not end up getting shut down from lack of funding from lower enrollment though.
It's also possible that lack of access to higher education would cause SOME kind of populist uprising, which people then hope would lead sweeping economic and social reforms.
But I'm increasingly pessimistic that populist uprisings in America would lead anywhere other than Christian fascism.
I think student loans are a symptom of the problem. But not the problem itself. The problem is that college is so incredibly unaffordable for many American students. If higher education wasn't so absurdly expensive, many students could take out fewer loans.
The loans are not just a symptom. Is probably the main cause of current college prices. Prices would not be so high if students would not be given money to pay them.
Given the other massive catastrophic defects in the fabric of our society, making student loans illegal makes about as much sense as outlawing flat tires. The law you'll probably write isn't going to punish the people who need to be punished, and it won't help the people you're trying to help.
Ah yes, let's make getting an accredited degree something only the wealthy can afford, that'll do well for the working class you betcha.
Class mobility is stagnant enough, I truly cannot see any upside to this for the vast majority of people.
Shoulda been illegal/actually regulate, in the first place. Removing restrictions on raising tuition was also another lame move.
I'm from a country with free university education and we also have student loans available.
Here's something that works for us: forget about private universities, invest in federal or state owned collages so that they can compete with the private ones.
Do a scholarship program where students can get free entry into these universities if their grades are high enough in high school, or make it dependent on an entry exam. Those that don't get in have a paid option that's still partially funded by the state or federal government.
Student loans will still be useful, not for tuition but for families who can't afford to send their kids to study in the cities where the universities are located.
The sad part about relying on scholarships is that disadvantaged kids are much less likely to have excellent grades. These people need school more than anyone else. The system works backwards.
This is a horrible idea.
Ban, no. Cap, maybe. Completely overhaul, yes.
This is just off-the-cuff; I haven't thought about the implications of all of these. But I think it would help significantly.
Generally oppose.
We would need massive structural changes in education and funding before banning student debt; you'd need to make university free, and give students a living stipend while they were there, as loans usually cover living expenses as well. I can't see that happening in the current political climate. So if we simply outlawed educational loans, the effect would be that millions of people would no longer have access to higher education at all.
The idea that you can learn things on the internet ignores the fact that the internet is rife with misinformation--i.e., bullshit and outright lies--and it allowed people to get into thought bubbles, which higher education fights against pretty effectively.
I hate capitalist economics, but the ease of obtaining student loans is one of the reasons for the high price of college tuition.
If student loans didn't exist, then most people would not be paying outrageous tuitions. Colleges will be forced to accomodate.
Canada recently stopped charging interest on their student loans, that goes a long way to affordability. The other thing though is just plain cost of education. It can be cheaper to get a 4-year degree from a Canadian University than take one year of a comparable program in the US.
Completely nonsensical and screws everyone involved.
Student loans are supposed to be an investment the government takes in its population. If it works properly then the money that the government spent on the students tuition is both paid back monetarily by the student as well as societally because now you have an educated citizen providing ever increasing tax revenue. If you make student loans illegal you not only make it impossible for students to educate themselves beyond public school you destroy the entire post secondary school industry now that so few can afford to educate themselves.
What needs to happen is cutting out all the middleman bullshit and just making post secondary education free with your taxes, at least a couple years worth. If someone wants to be a doctor or a lawyer or someone who needs to have more than a couple years worth then sure that can be on their dime. Otherwise those first 4 years are just unnecessarily saddling people with mountains of debt that there is no guarantee they can pay back after they are done
I feel the same way about that as I do about making ALL education - K through 16 (or tech/vocational) FREE.
I am all for it. We have way too many stupid people shoving their voices in matters that don't concern them. Educated would be better.
That's not at all what OP proposed though. They want to keep tuition as is, just eliminate loans.
You may know everything, but no degree no luck?
Why not think a but further? Money for people that need it, free universities? Like... in the EU?
What issue are you looking to solve? You state that you believe people are able to seek out, and attain their education independently through resources like the internet. So why would it matter if there are alternatives that cost money which one can pay, and receive loans for?
In my country loans are interest free. This makes them easy to pay off with destroying your life. You can also pause payments with no issue.
The loans in my country aren't too bad.
It's not a normal loan, it doesn't appear on my credit checks.
It's provided by the government and has low interest.
You only pay it back once you earn over a certain amount and they take a single digit percentage of your wages.
It's more like a graduate tax as paying it off doesn't matter, short of not wanting it taken from your wages.
I earn around double the national average and pay around 100 a month. Which isn't a huge amount. Basically a decent meal out + drinks a month.
In the short term, only the children of the wealthy could continue into higher education. Anyone else who had dreams of doing anything that required higher ed, including professions that are already in short supply like doctors, nurses, and pharmacists, would be SOL. I can see how "starve the beast" makes an appealing, easy to understand fix for the issues in higher education, but I think the cost to people is too high to do it like that.
Health insurance first please.
Better solution would be a cap on tuition imo.
But even no interest loans or at the very least let them be discharged in bankruptcy would be better than what we have.
That's the wrong question. Just nationalize higher education and subsidize or make it free, at least to the point the we're producing enough engineers, medical doctors, scientists, artists, and etcetera every year.
Yeah, I would be 100% on board with living in a society that says "go as far as you can". If people doing the teaching say that a person is able to benefit and they have room, I want that person to learn.
A more educated society is a benefit to everyone, not just the person who's getting the education.
Yeah. "Internet education" ๐ค
(EDIT: You can hire me for the job. I'm right on top of 'mount stupid' in the Dunning-Kruger effect. I'm an expert in shitposting and a self-taught know-it-all when it gets to know what american politics gets wrong. I'd even volunteer some strong oppinions on gun laws.)