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[–] 190 points 1 year ago* (61 children)

The first sentence of the article shows the problem.

For years, we heard about the tech talent shortage — that there were a glut of jobs and not enough bodies to fill them.

The problem wasn’t ever “bodies,” which people have always misunderstood. It’s qualified workers.

I worked in tech for a long time, at a bunch of different companies, and I never once worked anywhere that there was a glut of jobs and “not enough bodies” to fill them.

The people going into these careers includes a large number of people who want the money but aren’t qualified do what we’re looking for.

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  • [–] 127 points 1 year ago* (34 children)

    Its more than that; companies also continuously propagate the message of "shortage of workers" while continuing to raise the requirements for entry level positions more and more. It reaches a point where "entry level" is not attainable for most fresh grads to get experience, and keeps their starting wages (and continuing wages) very well depressed due to the high supply.

    Its a very targeted campaign to make sure educated workers are oversupplied, tied down with student debt, and don't get too many ideas of independence in their heads.

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  • [–] 49 points 1 year ago (30 children)

    It's a bit more nuanced than that. A lot of college grads I've interviewed come out expecting to be senior level when they don't even have a basic foundation of IT. Don't expect to get paid 6 figures right out of college when you have 0 experience and can't even provide basic answers to questions that help desk people know. Colleges have lied to them that we(the IT industry) needs them and that they're special. Show me you have the foundation before telling me how the industry works.

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  • [–] 69 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    can’t even provide basic answers to questions that help desk people know

    University is not a job training program though. A degree demonstrates that you have the skills to figure things out, not that you already have everything figured out. Even with decades of experience, it takes me a bit of time to spin up on a new library, framework, programming language, etc.

    Companies are supposed to provide this training, not just to new hires, but to all employees. It does take a little extra time to teach new hires, but their salaries are also lower so it should balance out. And if they want to keep those employees around, then they should give them generous pay increases so they don't just jump for a salary increase.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Sorry but a degree just demonstrates that you can pass exams and follow rules. Almost all new graduates I knew had a big ego, a lack of critical thinking, that combined in a massive Dunning Kruger effect. They are better middle management material than engineers. They can't even RTFM, like c'mon. And AI is just making all this worse.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    Master in computer science

    Doesn’t know how to restart a web server.

    I don’t mean “doesn’t know the flavour of Linux” I mean doesn’t conceptually know what a web server is so can’t restart the service running on the box.

    Yeah, it’s going to be a couple years before you break into the high earner. The problem is that silly valley was hiring tech grads at $300k total comp when money was cheap. Money isn’t cheap anymore.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago

    It doesn’t help that conpanies lie on their requirements in job postings. Even entry level retail jobs are asking for 2-3 years of retail experience. That’s just insulting to those with retail experience and an impossible “entry level” requirement. Leads people to just ignore any requirements.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago

    It's not just that. HR departments (who, let's be honest, were never exactly super-clear on what tech roles are or do because they're busy with everything else) have been infected by AI to the point that no one can just see a job and apply for it unless they rearrange everything in the resume to match the job posting verbiage exactly.

    Everyone who makes it past that hurdle are sorted lowest-to-highest salary requirements. Oh you have seventeen years experience? Fuck you. Everyone after that is sorted by age/race/ whatever. It's the perfect system for fucking up tech hiring.

    Unless you rebrand everything you do as AI. Then you'll get 100 million dollars from Zuckabug. (It used to be "cloud" but that was a long time ago now). So the tech manager who knows what they're looking for gets a bunch of applications from newbies who talk like AI is everything and they don't want that.

    It's super fucked.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

    How much is it that these companies don't want to train. I have a hard time believing your job is so advanced and technical you couldn't find someone qualified at any point.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago

    Training people up would be a great idea when you have the attitude that you're going to keep working there for 30 years. Those old "company man" jobs are all but gone. If you stay at a job 5 years, people start to wonder if there's something wrong with you. That's just starting to be enough time for training to be worth the investment.

    If tech was unionized, and the union had the attitude that they are basically a trade guild that will build up your skills, that would change things.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    In my experience there is a huge gap between those that are smart and enthusiastic and those that are just average. I consider myself part of the former group and I can't blame coworkers for just doing their job and go home. But it means the gap just widens.

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    [–] 171 points 1 year ago (10 children)
  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I'm not sure that works. There were 20 shillings to the pound.

    So £0.75 a week.

    This inflation calculator:

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

    £75 in 1843 is equivalent to £8,310.96

    So 15s then is equivalent to £83.11 a week, £4321.72 a year.

    40 hour week (which is implied to be too low). ~£2.08 an hour

    So if he worked over 40 hours you're talking a sub £2/hour wage. Around $2.70 in US money.

    I suspect the stat relies on converting to dollars before applying inflation as GBP to USD was about 1 to 5 then instead of about 1 to 1.33

    It's fun but I wouldn't want to denigrate Dickens by saying he got poverty wrong to make a political point.

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  • [–] 87 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    While the idea behind AI was that it would automate manual tasks and help workers focus on more value-added activities, some workers fear it will outright replace them — and that’s already happening

    Yeah, it already happened to the journalist that would have written this article. I find it a bit funny that the picture caption is just the prompt they used to generate it

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    [–] 79 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Two decades of “just learn to code bro”, will do that to a profession.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    The industry has brought in a ton of soulless goons and uninterested/stupid workers for a decade and it’s destroyed the industry.

    I’m not saying there aren’t good people, but I have interviewed hundreds of people over 10+ years for jobs in tech, and the quality bar dropped a lot.

    This started well before AI. I met people from Apple/Amazon/Google/etc. who functionally could not do their job, contributed nothing to projects, and were highly paid. Only a few big companies were the exception.

    I’ve met a ton of people with phds and advanced degrees from prestigious schools that were total crap too.

    We shovelled so many people into the system because the jobs sounded amazing and they’d pay stupid prices for a degree. We fully industrialized low performance hiring, so yeah, no surprise packages are dropping.

    Plus, I used to get time to teach interns and new grads too. The staff we taught grew into way better workers than the job hoppers with 6 jobs at fancy companies over 3 years who had never completed a real project beyond the shiny prototype.

    The last 3-4 years I had been constantly threatened about looming layoffs, and that we needed to meet targets at all costs. I’ve been perennially told “if we’re just heads down and all out until [6 months from now/project completion] it’ll all be good again”. Only for the cycle to repeat again and again and again.

    The big tech machine destroyed my mental health and I’m out, and I’m much much happier and healthier. I still work in tech, but I’m incredibly selective about the jobs I take, and I’ll never work in corporate tech again.

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    [–] 59 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    6 figure jobs are still common, but not at the entry level. The companies that used to offer such thing are taking that money and investing in AI, thinking that they won't need new blood.

    They're wrong, but that's what's happening.

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    [–] 59 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    It’s not just grads. I have 1 open senior position, 100 applicants. A good 10% of them with 15+ years of experience have had no job in the last year, or have things like “Amazon fulfillment center” as their most recent job. Shits rough if you find yourself laid off or if the company you’re working for went out of business.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago

    I know a guy with three degrees and decades of experience on a resume littered with well-known companies and astounding projects.

    2.5 years out of work.

    This is the guy who should be fixing slopper code and he's working volunteers and startups so his resume isn't toxic from an Uber or Amazon gig.

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    [–] 52 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Maybe if people hadn't pushed everyone in the entire fucking world into my field we wouldn't have this problem

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    Do you mean to tell me it wasn't a quick get-rich scheme and people who aren't interested in the field will have issues after doing math puzzles 8 hours a day in front of a monitor before going home to do more on github?

    But the rich non-programmer guy told me so!

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    [–] 36 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    So old man time. In the early nineties things did not look great. Almost any college degree was not bringing in a salary one could like think about having a family with. Then came the late nineties and dot com and tech jobs were like the only thing that paid to possibly have what was, in many peoples mind, the typical middle class life. You know own your own home thing eventually. Since then its been tech or bust and now tech is bust and there is no go to field for people to run to.

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    [–] 34 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives

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    [–] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The secret of the CS and IT job is that it has always been the Neuveaux Blue Collar job.

    For every IT exec and formerly-technical middle-management douchebag making really good money, there are 2 to 10 actually technical resources making "okay" money relative to their skill and the insane hours and scenarios they are expected to work.

    Oh and let's not forget they're constantly trying to outsource as much of that support and engineering talent as possible.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    And that is why we need unions in tech. Tech is a cost center for most companies. It’s a space to beat down as much as possible to get margins up, just the same as the guys working on the line making the thing.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If your job can be automated. Your job will be automated. Even if the work it produces is hot runny shit.

    They would rather pump out pure garbage than pay an honest wage for honest work. It doesn't even have to work. They'll just put an arbitration clause in the EULA. Then sit back and count their money.

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    Tech is much more than programming / software

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    No.

    They would like it to be. We're really expensive because they can't do it. As soon as all shit hits the fan guess who starts earning more.

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    [–] 19 points 1 year ago
    [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    What matters isn't whether you think that AI can replace you. What matters is whether the CEO thinks that AI can replace you.

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    [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Does anyone from Europe recognize this? Because it isn't what I'm seeing.

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    [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Says / asks an article in a media spin-off created by a big fintech company, which has been funded by, among others, Peter Thiel by a big digital finance publisher / SaaS and advertising company with a history of not disclosing their investors, probably laying off people and heavily investing in AI themselves.

    Yes, the tech sector is in a harsh condition, but we will go on. Don't let the AI hype / lay off waves for an overhired tech workforce from covid break your minds. There will be a need for smart people building and maintaining ecosystems, as long as a rising tech oligarchy won't gatekeep us all out, which should be the headline here.

    Edit: I can't find a link between the fintech wise and the publisher wise. I still don't like this type of sensationalist headlines as all technology gets allegedly obsoleted every other year.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Maybe we should start with kicking out the non-nerds ??

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    [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Of course it is. Your employer will replace you with an immigrant or AI as soon as they can, that's how capitalism works.

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    [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    Maybe…? This just seems like a massive over-correction here, and an over-correction to something other than the existence of LLMs at that. They shovelled so many people into IT via boot camps to correct the perceived overvaluation of software professionals that now there’s nothing to be seen for all that investment, and the market has snapped back. Actual experienced engineers became even more desirable a resource due to overseeing all the boot camp kids, and now we’re less than months away from a massive mess of instant legacy code everywhere due to CTOs who saw $s in their eyes from the low low cost of Claude versus a junior.

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