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[–] 116 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

My initial impression of his writings hit me as either Groyper posing as a leftist, or just an accelerationist psychopath.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that right-wing extremism makes up the majority of violence.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    If the Discord is real, he seemed like a pretty normal guy. Apparently he was bisexual, and his girfriend might've been trans. According to the source at least. I don't know any groypers, so I don't know how they act, but I don't think that they're normally fine with that sort of thing. Somewhere else said that he claimes to have done it to silence the hate that Kirk spewed, which is a fair enough reason I guess. Lots of contradictory info. Maybe he was a groyper that woke up after meeting his girlfriend. Maybe he just did it for attention. Maybe he just snapped. I'm just hoping for the best, that he did it for a decent enough reason, not to start a race war. We might even find out, if he isn't Epsteined.

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    [–] 92 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    this country isn’t ready for what the youngest online male zoomers are like lol. i’m a millennial but i’ve been here the whole time watching cultures come and go and the memelord nihilist has been growing since ‘04. there are many variations and they range from sad and pathetic yet ultimately harmless to sad and pathetic and goddamn dangerous. these people can have a mixture of politics and usually prefer whatever has the most public condemnation so they can align themselves with immorality as a point of pride which becomes their identity. fuck having your own beliefs, just follow whatever gets the most negative response from society.

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  • It's the way disempowerment interacts with tribalism and a saturated obviously polarized media environment.

    This is only gonna get stupider. The cure is giving people agency over their lives, authorship over their world. Make the things they believe actually fucking matter.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Agreed - I really hate doing this "next generation bad" thing, but this really is a different situation than what we've seen before. The way the Internet creates a feedback loop of extremism around every single topic is terrifying, and people are completely missing the profound effects this is having on developing brains - priming them for radicalization while critical thought atrophies.

    When we grew up we had a set of influences which grounded us in reality. Even if we found subversive places on the Internet, we still spent most of our time with our parents and teacher and coaches, etc. This is completely inverted now. Kids traverse the internet like a dog sniffing out idiotic ideas, and when they find the validation they seek, there's seemingly no way to pull it out of them.

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    [–] 65 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Shocking that a terminally online 22 year old doesn’t have a consistent ideology.

    I saw a comment on instagram from someone saying Charlie Kirk had had some “powerful comments” in his videos. Checked the profile and there was a ton of pro-environment, anti-cop content. Most people don’t think super hard about their political ideology.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Most people don’t think super hard about their political ideology.

    This is perhaps the most important insight one can have when it comes to entertaining the 'fun' discussions on christmas dinner. Both in constructing an argument and maintaining healthy relationships.

    People really cling to being a "good" person. And not thinking can serve as a shield to maintain this; at least within one's own self-image.

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  • [–] 60 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Taking politics (mostly) out of it -

    Luigi allegedly killed because he saw injustice and had empathy for other people, wanted to show the evils of health insurance companies.

    This kid imo allegedly killed because he loved someone CK was spouting hateful narratives about. His empathy for this person he loved, and people like them who are just normal people living life, made it easy for him to turn to guns when he wanted this person gone for eternity.

    People with empathy are snapping.

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  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    People with empathy are snapping.

    This line hits hard. I hate this fucking timeline.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is what the MAGAs don't understand since MAGA requires, and trains, people to be Sociopaths.

    An empathetic person will avoid violence for as long as possible, but when the forces against them become too great, and they snap, their empathy morphs into Protection Mode, and anyone who has people in their life that they protect, knows how dangerous Protection Mode can be.

    I've been identifying my personal Red Lines, and one of the biggest is certain people in my life who are members of vulnerable demographics that MAGAs particularly despise. If anything were to happen to those people, I would become very dangerous. My empathy for them could easily be twisted into revenge against MAGA.

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    [–] 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    Here's my tidy narrative: he was raised in MAGA family, was poorly educated and had a lot of exposure to extremists positions but little exposure to critical thinking. When he finally was exposed to different ideology at college he wasn't able to process is correctly and reacted violently, as he was taught to do by his conservative upbringing.

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    [–] 38 points 1 year ago* (30 children)

    I'm a little annoyed with how quickly everyone here latched onto the Groyper narrative and parroted it as established fact. Seems unhelpful to run with a story before any evidence came out.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    I think it's just common sense. When the fascists start spewing "he's super leftist and trans" propaganda you don't respond with "wait, we have to wait for more facts". You respond with your own propaganda. Being nice and following rules will not help you stop fascism. The groyper narrative might have actually prevented retaliation and saved lives.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    I’ll leave this here for others like me who apparently are really out of the loop

    Groypers, sometimes called the Groyper Army, are a group of alt-right, white nationalist, and Christian nationalist 41 activists led by Nick Fuentes. Groypers are a loosely defined group of Fuentes's followers and fans. They are named after a cartoon amphibian named "Groyper", a variant of the Internet meme Pepe the Frog.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    I'm sad that the supposedly better side is spreading missinformation and propaganda just like that.

    Specially because it's pushing a propaganda about "If your parents are X you are X". Which is really harmful for all the people not following the same ideology as their parents.

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    [–] 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    You thought that right- and left-wing extremists are the problem, turns out the center-extremists are /s

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    [–] 36 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    How crazy would it be if we found out he did it for love?

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    [–] 32 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Did they just learn about nuance and that practically nothing in life is strictly black and white?

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    [–] 31 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is what a "slow pivot" looks like. Kirk's killer didn't turn out to be the gay, trans, rainbow polar bear the news was hoping for and did their hardest to promote.

    The obvious "tidy narrative" is that the son of two Trump supporters, living in an ultra conservative state just might be a conservative himself.

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    [–] 27 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What about the tidy narrative of raised in a conservative home with early and easy access to guns?

    There haven’t been many shooters that weren’t around right wingers and guns at home, wherever their supposed personal ideologies became.

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    [+] 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I feel validated in an opinion I have had for ages : that in all the talk about 2nd Amendment rights Americans do guns are nothing but a security blanket they clutch to make them feel like Democracy will be saved or be maintained as long as they clutch their emotional support weapon. They will watch rights be stripped from them, their neighbours carted off in wagons and none of them will shoot even if they have the weapon on their person while this is happening. They will protest, they will write and verbalize their dissent and they will appeal to authority and band together democratically but the ownership of the weapons themselves are useless. Realistically if someone from the government comes for them they will likely go quietly because no one is coming to save them. At that point it's basically over. The system is too big to fight.

    The real resistance is in numbers not armaments. It doesn't matter what you are wielding if you have solidarity and organization and the bravery to misbehave. Resistance can be in attacking the gears that make things run by not doing your job or doing it poorly. Refusing to comply in a multitude of ways like sending things to the wrong place or making 'mistakes' that cost time and effort to fix. A government can only force compliance so much and at the end of the day runs on good faith. Guns are a distraction to jingle in your face so you stay isolated. Building walls between you and other humans with dreams you will defend your own little fort against the tides of tyranny.

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    [–] 23 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Of course he fits into a tidy narrative: whatever one the right wants. Clearly he's trans, trans-adjacent, trans-influenced, trans-atlanic who did a bad because the social contagion eroding the social fabric of western (read: cis straight white male-dominated christian) civilization. We knew these facts before Kirk's body hit the floor.

    The rest of the "details" like, reality and evidence or whatever, doesn't really matter.

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    thanks for posting this, many people here seem to be hellbent on projecting onto the shooter whatever their preferred identity for him would be.

    all i really care to know about him is that he's a good shot.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Ok so suppose this is some seemingly normalish apolitical gamer kid that was foolishly taught to solve problems with guns. Kirk was blanket targetting people he cared about and took action to do something about it.

    This is the MO of some guy who's like neighbors are like threatening their wife. Its not a good solution but if the cops won't help folks being threatened its what people do.

    The same day a right wing trump gooner killed a bunch of kids in colorado. Its crazy that the media is all lockstep in whitewashing charlie kirk like this to explicitly go after people fully unrelated to the shootings.

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    [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    I've been following all the news on him and he's clearly a trans groyper antifa gun enthusiast centrist who likes to play Helldivers II.

    (/s)

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    [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    People want a good weapon they can use to hurt others. But the store only has a human shaped tool. How can we swing that at others?

    Please, I just need a "he was a groyper." The guy behind me wants a "he was trans."

    The more ergonomic the concept the better. Don't tell me it's complex or untidy. What's the point of being trained by the media? I have all these patterns... just fit the guy into one already.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Planted chats. Full of boomer speak. It's not even chatgpt. Just straight boomer speak.

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    [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    I'm pretty sure I know his type and my guess is he "did it for the lulz"

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    The federal conclusion will inevitably be that he was a so-called nihilist violent extremist (NVE)

    That is a lot of confidence in the administration to let law enforcement do its job properly and not politicize the findings.

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