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Not everyone stays a hero (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[-] [email protected] 49 points 2 days ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violette_Morris

[-] [email protected] 32 points 2 days ago

This is beyond mental. Maybe she was always like this, it just wasn't really known yet.

[-] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It sounds like the gravest accusations against her were just rumors. I wouldn't be surprised, given how poorly she was treated before the war due to her non-gender-conforming lifestyle. Odd to think that a homosexual woman would end up being treated better by the Nazis...

[-] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago

Had a mastectomy to "fit into cars better." Right.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

So all the accusations against them were rumors (surely not at all influenced by them being gay or (likely) trans 🙄), and they were murdered by a militia that had no qualms murdering children, but they're the monster here?

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

So all the accusations against them were rumors

No, only some details are disputed. It's undisputed that they were a Nazi collaborator.

but they’re the monster here?

For willingly collaborating with the Nazis? Yes.

[-] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago

The worse accusation were rumors, they still helped the Nazis by getting them gas, space, and driving them around. The problem with facists is that everyone remotely involved in helping them gets put at the same level. All of ICE whether they're driving the trucks or actually kidnapping folks are still ICE members. Whatever washed up actor or comedian of the day is also not going to get sympathy from me. Peter Thiel is gay, that has nothing to do with the horrors he is helping unleash on the rest of us.

[+] [email protected] -10 points 1 day ago

Considering it sounds like they couldn't get work anywhere else, can you really blame them for working for the only group that gave them a chance? And the situation you described is already preying on those crushed under student debt and out of work. Are you really going to say everyone taking the only opportunity they're given are equally as bad as the fuckers calling the shots and doing the deeds? It doesn't make the actions ok, but not everyone up and down the chain deserves a death sentence. You can have and show compassion to those that deserve it and still hold people accountable to the degree that they deserve it.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

Yes I absolutely can blame them, if the only place you can find work is with nazis then you're unemployed

[-] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago

Yes, if you help murdering people, you help murdering people and I don't care on bit about your tragic backstory! Having a difficult life does not excuse becoming a fucking monster!

[+] [email protected] -9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Forcing everything in your life into binary "good" and "monstrous evil" isn't going to help anything. You're just adding more hatred into the world, and there's plenty enough of that as is.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago

Holding people accountable for voluntarily working with the nazis absolutely does help

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

I'm saying that when you sit at a table with nazis you're going to be counted as a nazi. In the event of violence no one is going to check your level of collaboration before throwing a punch or pulling a trigger.

[-] [email protected] -5 points 1 day ago

Just to be clear, you're defending a user that is branding anyone acting in desperation a "monster", as well as assassins that explicitly targeted a non-cis person for death for their minimal involvement and murdered children as a matter of course. This is really the lane you wanna be in?

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

You're defending someone who helped Nazis willingly, just because they weren't cis. That really the lane you want to be in?

There's no note of desperation she experienced and what makes you think the resistance wasn't desperate? The Nazis killed 1.5million kids. War is hell and bullets economical or otherwise don't magically avoid children. France had 80% of domestic food being commandeered to Germany and enforced a 1300 calorie rationing. Not to mention forced entry of French men for STO, military Brothels, and the killing of ~75,000 jews. At what point do you think Violette should have stopped activities that supported the Nazis? When do they say "enough, no more"?

She may not have even been the target, as noted the a bailleul family was part of the vichy France regime. If she was the target I can guarantee they weren't looking back with the 20/20 hindsight we have and were going off the reports calling her the hyena of the Gestapo. Information reliability is going to be low in occupied war zones.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 22 hours ago

I'm not defending them. I've consistently only advocated for more compassion than the binary "hero" and "monster" allows for. Because in a worldview where those are the only options, apparent bigotry and the murder of children isn't considered a problem even 100 years after the fact, as long they were seen to be on the right side.

We need to be able to think on a spectrum of morality, otherwise we're just inviting more horrors into the world that hide in plain sight under the guise of "righteousness".

[-] [email protected] 40 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'm trying to find a quote about how heroes in WW1 become villain in WW2, but i can't find it.

So let's just pretend this comment is saying that quote.

Edit: if i recall correctly, it says that many villain will stay a hero if WW2 didn't happen.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

When in doubt, just attribute it to Winston Churchill. Wait...

[-] [email protected] 36 points 1 day ago

well, in shortage of historical quotes let's substitute that with a batman one

"You either die a hero or you live long enough to become the villain" - Harvey Dent

this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2025

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