Oof at the G*mers in the comments saying "But censorship bad!" Curiously enough, maybe games that simulate or encourage SA actually deserve to be censored? The same dudes who love free speech until it threatens or hurts them or someone they care about.
The group behind this is absolutely using it as a stepping stone to eventually censor games with trans content, if not lgbt content in general alongside everything else they erroneously view as harmful.
Steam can either be a curated games store or a free for all. They signaled way back that they want to be a free for all, but they've shown repeatedly that they will curate their store based on external pressure, which means that right now they're a store whose curators are the worst groups in society.
That's kinda tough, then. Because even in a free-for-all, I would greatly support censoring out those particular topics. But I definitely understand this group doesn't have the best intentions. I would love to believe the payment processors wouldn't agree to censor general LGBT+ content, but I also know better than to have any faith in the profit machine.
I think that it's not a functional stepping-stone for censoring gay content at least. There'd be an unfathomable level of community pushback and countless publishers, etc. would not tolerate such a thing. They'd literally have an easier time imposing rules about interracial sex (but that wouldn't fly either).
There's nothing wrong with having a kink for SA anyway, which is the target market of games like that. 99% of the people who play those games aren't going to turn around and go and sexually assault someone, this is the same logic as claiming that video games cause violence when they demonstrably do not.
1% is too many. Also, people readily acknowledge that things like a crass fixation on choking* that regularly leads to injuries and unpleasant experiences is popularized by het porn, but somehow we aren't encouraging any negative impulses with literal r--- simulators? Especially since of the couple that I've heard about, a concerning number have the subjects be either minors or minor-coded. But pedo shit in games can't possibly impact anything in the real world, because that's like saying video games cause violence, right?
*Wherein guys do no research or even seek consent and just grab someone's neck really hard mid-sex, something for which there are countless stories.
Those 1% would've likely done it anyway, with or without the game. It also needs to be said that the vast majority of cis men who go on to sexually assault people aren't playing porn video games anyway, they're incredibly niche and in my experience are played by a roughly 50/50 split of archetypal mentally disabled people who aren't going out enough to sexually assault anyone (like myself in the past) and queer people. The choking problem doesn't come from porn video games, it comes from the intensely exploitative live-action porn industry, which is not in any way comparable to video games or any other type of animated pornography.
In my experience the majority of people who engage with rpe-kink (god I hate the filtering here) are rpe-victims, such as myself. It is a way of processing and reclaiming the trauma, and rendering the idea of r*pe so fuckin taboo that it cannot be processed and dealt with through kink is horrible practice that does nothing but make the lives of many victims a lot harder. Speaking from experience.
The choking problem doesn't come from porn video games, it comes from the intensely exploitative live-action porn industry, which is not in any way comparable to video games or any other type of animated pornography.
We both know that the relevant factor here is that one is extremely popular and the other is more niche.
So are we concluding that games like R--- Simulator are good for society?
Edit:
in my experience are played by a roughly 50/50 split of archetypal mentally disabled people who aren't going out enough to sexually assault anyone (like myself in the past) and queer people.
This might surprise you, but I don't actually think SV should be inflicted on queer people either, so I don't see how queer people being the consumer base is remotely relevant if you're using the term to refer to gay and lesbian people, and it seems like a non-sequitur if you're talking about trans people. Obviously, I don't buy into conservative fear-mongering about queer people committing sex crimes all the time, but they do commit sex crimes at all, like straights and cissies do. So why even bring this up? Because the example that I used was of het sex crimes?
Also, a lot of these games are extremely het (like RS) and I don't even really get what you mean by "archetypal" mentally disabled people. Mentally disabled people do sometimes commit sex crimes, like groups from basically all walks of life.
i think a game from the perspective of the r---ist is much more concerning and what needs to be banned, im unsure which 389aaa is referring to
I somewhat agree, but remember that it can also be nominally from the perspective of the victim and still very bad, like LonaRPG. Playing as a girl and getting off on her being brutalized in an objectified manner is a really common thing, with some games being more subtext and some just being "watch this girl get r---d" simulators.
i dont play porn games so im not really sure what LonaRPG is, but i would support banning any game that presents it like you described also
Hey now, just to be clear, I didn't play Lona and I don't play these games in general, I just end up finding out about them because I really like certain types of obscure indie RPGs and in the process of looking for them, I end up finding out about shit like this too.
fair enough wasnt trying to accuse you of it sorry lol.
also, i should say i dont really judge anyone who plays even one of these porn games, even the really questionable/bad ones, i just think there's too much potential for abuse and it feeds into the omnipresent misogyny in society so they need to be banned. i actually put more responsibility onto the ones who make these games than the consumers tbh.
Absolutely. I mean, I personally think someone who likes the game that I just mentioned is a porn-brained creep, but the fundamental issue when something is distributed that shouldn't be distributed is pretty much always going to be the distributor and not the recipient. It's a basic element of Marxist thinking that we should be deliberately cultivating environments that encourage people to be pro-social rather than leaving a bad environment as it is and moralizing regarding the individuals who respond to it in a completely predictable fashion. That kind of atomization and fixation on individual responsibility is how liberals deliberately avoid confronting systemic problems.
If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.
-- Victor Hugo (via MLK)
I don't take a view quite this totalizing and obviously here he is mostly talking about deprivation, but I think that materials that encourage misanthropic, chauvinistic, sadistic attitudes and feelings are their own kind of darkness and need to be dealt with accordingly.
Maybe most importantly, though I would still put a little fault on the consumer here if you asked me, fault doesn't actually matter, what matters is what creates a better world, and here that involves heavily prioritizing cracking down on distribution, rather than attacking the creeps buying it.
Maybe most importantly, though I would still put a little fault on the consumer here if you asked me, fault doesn't actually matter, what matters is what creates a better world, and here that involves heavily prioritizing cracking down on distribution, rather than attacking the creeps buying it.
most importantly seems to contradict (eg. "fundamental issue") the rest of the comment :3
i believe what you mean is that it's something that shouldnt be left unaddressed and that you dont want to totally let creeps off the hook. ig i should say im ace and i find pretty much all porn hard to understand, even the most "normal" porn so the gap between someone who likes something really fucked up and "vanilla" porn isnt as big as i imagine it is to the average allo? like, i feel like it's very possible to just like the taboo of a game like this without being a creep, find hot whatever you find hot, i think all sex stuff is weird but if you do like some taboo like these games (without desiring to be a r---pist ofc) you should not complain about them being banned and what not
My whole point is that I don't appreciate the creeps who like this sadistic, exploitative sort of stuff, but that whatever complaints I have about them consuming this shit isn't fractionally as bad or worthwhile to discuss as the problem of it being put up for consumption to begin with.
I think the difference here -- once explained -- is pretty easy to understand. There's a huge difference between erotica (etc.) that either recognizes the other as human or just objectifies them in a way that is unconcerned with their view, versus actively reveling in their suffering and subjugation. That's it.
My whole point is that I don't appreciate the creeps who like this sadistic, exploitative sort of stuff
i dont disagree. to better clarify my own position, it's moreso that i dont want to try and claim to know random strangers' hearts based off their kinks, which i mostly find weird anyways. i dont think its that far fetched for someone to find something like this titillating for a more innocuous reason (eg. just the taboo of it) but also recognize the horror of it. again, however, i think their position on whether or not it should be banned in public works to be illuminating if that makes any sense (i.e. i find it a lot more sus for someone to be very upset about these games being banned as compared to someone admitting they have played and enjoyed this kind of game but support a ban if that makes any kind of sense.)
There's a huge difference between erotica (etc.) that either recognizes the other as human or just objectifies them in a way that is unconcerned with their view, versus actively reveling in their suffering and subjugation. That's it.
i agree here 100% btw, i maybe am just more lenient about the morals/intentions of someone who likes this kind of content.
I think that's interesting because a lot of people take the opposite position -- that people who consume this sort of thing and say it should be banned are hypocrites who can be dismissed -- but I agree with you. I'd still think they're sus, but I'd accept them believing it should be banned and they're incomparably better than the chanlords who defend it.
I think that's interesting because a lot of people take the opposite position -- that people who consume this sort of thing and say it should be banned are hypocrites who can be dismissed
yes i think if you are trying to convince someone that these games should be banned i think revealing the fact that you have fondly engaged with them in the past is a huge error lol exactly for that reason. its sort of similar to people outwardly breaking BDS imo. no one really needs to know your fucked up kinks, and no one needs to know that you think BDS is stupid. the much more important thing is that you dont lead other people down this path than anything else, idk if that makes any sense. im not a huge fan of the debatebro "fallacy" shit but the hypocrite fallacy is really useful to consider here too, tons of people give good advice/advocate for something while being "hypocrites"
i think the biggest issue is how much can you actually trust someone who makes such a relatively meaningless statement on this issue on an online forum where all our comment mean next to nothing anyways? i seriously doubt people like i described would admit to this kind of thing in any sort of context outside of a relatively anonymous forum like this, but it's also really easy to pretend as if you "support" the banning of these games but actively put money in their patreon or whatever.
I guess. The logic is sound. I guess that kink makes me uncomfy, but I shouldn't shame someone for that. It's hard for me to understand, but I know I don't understand everything.
Maybe this is more of a reminder that Steam shouldn't have a monopoly on being a storefront for PC games, oh wait:
SA mention
You know this rule change is fucked when you find youself on the side ofremoved and incest goon games.
u/NW_of_Nowhere 3h ago
Can someone explain the problem? Where things other than R** and I*** taken down?
That stuff should be outright outlawed.
5 u/NY_Knux 2h ago . Congrats, you're a useful tool for fascists.
This is a stepping stone to censor queer content in the future.
Struggle session! Struggle session! Let’s start struggle session!
I think it's fairly easy for people to both recognise that these sorts of games are fucked up, but also that the groups behind this absolutely have harmful motives and will go after LGBTQ people next. Two things can be bad, and fascists do infight.
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Went to check on the founders history to see if they were well intentioned people who just did not understood the reach of what they did or if it's was a conservative group masquarading at feminism... and of course it's a conservative group masquarading at feminism.
The people they have cosigning this "Open Letter" are groups that are TERFs, seeks abolition of the legal commercial industry, campaigns against comprehensive sex education (something our children when they reach puberty desperately need), etc. One was even linked to a far-right anti-trans group known as Women's Declaration International.
How unexpected! 
my 2 cents: hate that this is happening because some weirdo conservative group pressured payment processors and those payment processors pressured steam, because i dont like conservatives or especially companies controlling speech/expression. however i am anti-free speech tbh so these kinds of games should absolutely be banned, i just want a socialist government doing it lol
Tabletop, DnD, board games, and minecraft. Also Animal Crossing.
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