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[–] 165 points 1 year ago (14 children)

As reiterated by the OP, the proposal is just a proposal and was proposed with heaps of lead time probably because they expected it to be controversial.

As also mentioned, heaps of volunteer time is spent maintaining the packages where most are barely used (even for gaming).

However, it does not seem like there is a viable alternative. Many comments say the suggested alternative, WINE's WoW64, does not work for all games.

I can see both sides here. Fedora maintainers says "this is so much work!" and (mostly) gamers saying "But older games will stop working!".

The response from the Bazzite guy does seem overblown to me. I would think the first step is to work out the impact, as I haven't seen anyone quantify what proportion of games are affected and if there are alternatives like emulation.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I'm wondering what the problem even is. I mean, can't you just put all the stuff relevant to 32 bit gaming into a 'retro-gaming' package and be like "there, now if you want updates, better find maintainers"?

    If you have an old game, chances are you won't need many new features. Only problem could be other packages or the kernel becoming incompatible. I don't know how relevant that is in this instance.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    WINE’s WoW64, does not work for all games.

    Ok but is that because of fundamental limitations, or just because of bugs?

    One's easier to fix than the other.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Dammit - found Bazzite one week ago and love it - now its embroiled in a controversy.

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    [–] 42 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    For those that think the response is overblown, from the thread:

    These images are intended to be a drop-in replacement for Steam Deck OS for handheld console-like gaming PCs like the Steam Deck (Lenovo Legion Go, ASUS ROG Ally, MSI Claw, and other hardware in the same space).

    These are also to be used to create gaming theater PCs, for streamlined use on a living room television.

    The issue with “just using Flatpak or a container” is that the gamescope compositor simply does not work in those situations, when paired with Steam’s Gaming Mode, as it has the same concerns as a desktop environment. There would simply be no way to serve Gaming Mode as an environment.

    As such, moving to this would essentially force Bazzite, as a project, to abandon its primary reason for existing - alienating 2/3s of their userbase. The remaining 1/3s would be served a lesser experience for a variety of more paper cut reasons, and VR is already a complex topic which would get even worse.

    It's a big deal because disallowing the native steam build would make it nearly impossible to run bazzite in a SteamOS-like experience (which accounts for 2/3s of bazzite's users)

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    [+] 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
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    [–] 31 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Did he elaborate on why? Is it really that integral to have 32bit tools?

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  • [–] 88 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Afaik Steam still heavily relies on 32-Bit. And bazzite's only purpose is Steam.

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  • [–] 49 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The comments in the thread don't mention Steam itself, but it's that running all the 32 bit games will become a problem. Steam's flatpak packages the 32 bit packages so that can get around this change, but the flatpak is not official and does not support all features. Steam themselves only provide the RPM for Fedora.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Yes, and from what I understood:

    • Steam is still 32bit. Two-thirds of Bazzite's user base use the OS on handhelds requiring Steam's gaming mode front-end. Installing Steam as a flatpak removes the ability to boot into gaming mode, and so alienating two-thirds of Bazzite's user base.
    • It will kill support for older games that are still 32bit. Wine's WoW64 isn't ready yet, and even so, building custom Proton for 32bit support (e.g. Including all the 32bit libraries inside of Proton itself) on top of the Proton provided by Valve is going to be very messy.
    • OBS requires 32bit packages to capture video data from 32bit games. If 32bit is no longer supported, this'll kill streamers playing older games (OBS is probably the most widely used software by streamers and game recorders).
    • It would kill VR on Bazzite, as VR still makes use of 32bit features (I'm not sure why or which ones, but that's what's said).
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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Oh wow, if steam is still 32 bit, forget the offshoots, fedora itself won't be worth using. I'm on fedora but if I can't run steam, then I'm finding a new distro.

    On the flip side, what's the reason they want to drop 32-bit support, given steam depends on it, which they should understand means it's integral to the size of their current userbase?

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (27 children)

    After Bazzite I went to Garuda, is also gaming focused and has a handy helper app that helps you install common software, run updates, and more.

    If you need a new distro it's worth a look.

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    [–] 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Glad I didnt install bazzite.

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    [–] 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Hear me out... But should we be asking why there are so many things, steam included, that are still on 32b libraries?

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean the answer is pretty easy: video games generally have a long shelf life and no maintenance at some point after they’re released.

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    [–] 22 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Instead of shutting down why not choose another distro base

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    The only notable thing about Bazzite is that it's built on top of Fedora Atomic, making it immutable like SteamOS.

    Without that, it's just a regular old distro with some opinions about which software should be preinstalled.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    PikaOS is Debian based, and they've built the deps they need for Steam in 32-bit, so it's not the end of the world AFAIK. GloriousEggroll seems to be part of it too, so if any refugees are looking for something not Fedora-based there you go. Although his efforts for now seem focused more on Nobara (which is Fedora-based) maybe this will cause some shake-ups there too. I can see Pika is already picking up speed from this though, the Discord is super active.

    Even if Fedora doesn't ever drop support I think even considering the possibility is shaking people's confidence in using it as a base going forward, sort of like how Unity's quickly-walked-back disasters drove people irrevocably towards Godot and other engines. Arch and Arch-based distros are probably starting to look much more appealing too.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    I would be shocked if Fedora went through with it. If anyone remembers canonical tried to do this with you one to some years ago. They backed down then after push back as well.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    God fucking damnit, I finally find a Linux OS that gels with me and I find this shit....

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    [–] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think I can hear Bringus sobbing somewhere

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    [–] 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Why would they not just use an Arch base like the real SteamOS does?

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