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submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

He didn't. The quotes in these tweets are fake. If I search for these quotes these tweets are the only results. Twitter is a hostile platform to reality as reality can get in the way of virality. Hence why you never see sources on twitter. This was likely written by someone with only a passing familiarity with gandhi's position on WWII who probably guessed at how he would speak based on his character in Civ.

What did gandhi actually think the Britiish should do in 1940? In his actual words:

I want you to fight Nazism without arms, or, if I am to retain the military terminology, with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have, as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these, but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them.

Basically he was speaking for an extreme form of non-violent civil disobedience, not capitulation.

Also a famous gandhi quote: "Stop believing everything you see on twitter you gullible rube"

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

A lot of good that'd do for the people being rounded up to get gassed.

Gandhi was not always right with his beliefs.

[-] [email protected] 48 points 3 days ago

It's important to remember: few outside of Germany knew that concentration camps existed, certainly not the scale of them or how appalling the conditions were. Consider the amount of information that Gandhi could reasonably have about activity in Germany and Europe. As far as he was concerned, the evil empire dominating his country was just having a costly spat with the evil empire dominating another country, sacrificing the welfare of his people for those of their neighbours in Europe.

[-] [email protected] 43 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

few outside of Germany knew that concentration camps existed

The creation of concentration camps was widely advertised in Nazi propaganda, as a show of force to intimidate dissidents. It was the later death camps that were secret: the ones that were designed for no purpose but to do murder at industrial scale.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago

It wasn't an actual secret. All the Wehrmacht officers knew, all the people in the towns nearby knew, all the cops knew, all the Ally leadership knew.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

If the Ally leadership knew, why didn't they use that information as propoganda for their war efforts?

[-] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_bombing_debate

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Abandonment_of_the_Jews

For whatever reason, they didn't even think it was worth bombing the rail systems that fed the camps.

Roosevelt didn't care. Churchill in particular publicly endorsed Aryan race theory before the war so "not caring" is the most charitable interpretation.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

Allied leadership was very wary of running into the issue they did in WW1 - where the exaggeration of German war crimes discredited the propaganda apparatus of Britain. As they became more aware of the nature and extent of the death camps, Allied leadership opted to document evidence for the postwar tribunals rather than engage in a war of accusation and denial against Nazi Germany which could have seriously damaged the short-term credibility of their propaganda efforts.

Whether this was the right choice is another question entirely.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

I don't think it was confirmed until they were starting to get liberated, was it? Like it was probably predicted they were there, but that's a pretty tough allegation to put out there and then be wrong on, victors or not.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

Polish partisans had been telling Allied Command about them for years.

Iirc there was even an absolute madlad of a Jewish Polish war hero who let himself get sent to a death camp so he could gather evidence and escape to get better evidence.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

Bullshit. People knew, they aren't dumb. The polish underground reported on them regularly and even had operatives inside them. People living around them knew they were death camps. You cannot commit such slaughter and somehow magically hide it.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Average people simply didn't have access to information at the scale we now enjoy at that time. Leaders of countries and militaries might know, but unless it was being reported by wire services and in local newspapers, the average person would have had no rational way of finding out about it.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

People in Poland knew. That's what I'm certain of. I know because my grandparents mentioned it and they were "average people", far away from the camps.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 19 hours ago

Okay, people in the US generally didn't though. How is the information going to get to them, when mail took months, phone calls were not realistically possible, and telegraphs were incredibly expensive? Unless it's getting reported by the major news outlets, the majority of people in the US simply didn't have access to that information. Given the propaganda that was coming from both sides at the time, reports might not have even been very believable to the average citizen.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago
[-] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them.

If one Jew or all the Jews were to accept the prescription here offered, he or they cannot be worse off than now. And suffering voluntarily undergone will bring them an inner strength and joy which no number of resolutions of sympathy passed in the world outside Germany can. Indeed, even if Britain, France and America were to declare hostilities against Germany, they can bring no inner joy, no inner strength. The calculated violence of Hitler may even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first answer to the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought deliverance of the race even at the hands of the tyrant. For to the godfearing, death has no terror. It is a joyful sleep to be followed by a waking that would be all the more refreshing for the long sleep.

Religious fanatics rarely deserve the adulation their beliefs receive.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

Iirc this asshole denied penicillin to his wife when she was dying, but then later when he needed it he was all for the miracles of modern technology.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

I mean, it feels like the tweet explained it well (I know nothing of the subject, but if the tweet is accurate I don't feel it needs any more explaining).

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

Ah yes, the pre-emptive starving several years before the war

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

I don't understand your comment, the war started in 1939, Great Britain joined the war 3 days after Hitler invaded Poland. The famine occured in 1943.

Your maths is terrible?

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Oh sorry, I spoke about Holodomor.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 3 days ago

The dude was a pedo, so who knows what really went on inside his noggin.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago
[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Debatable, I guess. Certainly by inclination if not necessarily a rapist.

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ghandi-slept-grandniece-historian-tells-uk-government-1460499

He did this super weird temptation trial thing, took baths them, etc. He took a vow of chastity when he was 38, but who knows what he was getting up to before then?

I'd heard the niece was younger than 18 when it started but I don't know enough of the details to say that source is wrong. What he certainly was was a racist and a sexist... Who also ended the British Empire and they're still a bunch of salty racist sexists themselves so die mad about it.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

yeah thats yucky, but idk if was really hush-hush considering he wrote it down himself for publishing.

he was unquestionably racist and sexist through a modern lens but the question with this stuff is how it contrasts with the world around the person.

i always point to Hergé, whose early works were super racist by today's standard because they followed the style at the time. not using the stereotypes at that point would have made eg Tintin in the Congo harder to read for contemporary audiences due to the shared cultural understanding. later books completely changed in tone as the century progressed.

[-] [email protected] -3 points 2 days ago

the dude was a pedo

How is that related to his opinions on international politics? Just because someone is terrible in one aspect of their life, doesn't mean the rest of their ideas have to be thrown out.

this post was submitted on 27 May 2025
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