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submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 29 points 1 day ago

A while back, I was watching a video about emergent behaviour. A fun concept. the idea is that under some rules, the way things behave ends up making their own different rules. Like how the rules of particle physics determine how subatomic particles behave, but when together they form chemistry, a different set of rules working on top of the lower layer. The same way as biochemistry becomes its own thing, and so biology is built on top of that, and on top of that we have ecology and then humans, and sociology, economics…

It left me with a question, a rather big and stupid question. We are intelligent, sentient, we are just a bunch of cells, intelligence has appeared in our layer. and my question was, can it appear in another? would we notice if there was an intelligent organism that uses our behaviour as its cells? I am not asking for sentient, because that is such a philosophical question which would be a massive tangent just to unpack.

For a while I was just wondering if it was possible, until I realized. They exist. Institutions. they are another layer of emergence, and they do have intelligence and behaviour.

You might say, that it is obvious they are intelligent, they have a CEO that makes decisions, therefore they get their intelligence from him and/or his advisors or advising teams. good point, exceptthe CEO is not the institution, he is replaceable, and the institutions themselves have built in mechanisms for it, to run efficiently. everyone is replaceale and for what? the survival ad near cancerous growth of said institution. Shareholders only care about numbers going up, and will fire anyone who makes any decision that questions it.

Aha, you will point at the shareholders, they are people, they make the decisions. Except most of them are not, they are other institutions, other corporations trying to keep the numbers up. trying to feed on capital.

This seems obvious. But I just providing another lens. Because now we can see their behaviour under a new light. Just like living organisms requre energy and its distribution to live. Institutions need capital, need people to work in there for them to exist, need people moving money around for them to exist.

And given the new lens we can ask different questions. Do they age, evolve, get diseases, do they have an ecology?

They do age. They must grow and a bigger corporation might be stronger but less adaptable and less nimble. can take less risks, it has less space to grow and might only survive by buying off the competition. For example, we can point at Kodak, they could have developed the digital cameras except they make money selling camera film, not cameras. For them making any product that will hurt film sales was short term suicide. Digital cameras were unavoidable, they could have succeeded in the digital fight and come out on top, but trying was forbidden to them as any decision that would hurt them in the short term is beyond the scope of their actions.

Evolve? yes they do. in their own way. simply, any institution that does not grow as fast or as strong will simply die off. There is a lot of competition, and new corporations with different rules will try to take over and if they actually are better fit for their environment they will succeed. We can see the evolution of corporations within the last centuries with corporations getting more traits, all using new behaviours and try to survive copying from each other if they can.

Ecology? Just look at the markets, private equity are basically scavengers, some corporations feed each other, niche speciation, trophic cascades… all those concepts apply here in some way.

My point is, corporations are not people. They are their own creatures, which care for us. The same way you care for your own cells. Are you even aware or care that millions of your cells die regularly, for example in your gut or skin? no, the same way a corporation has absolutely no care for their workers.

This is just a lens, if you are a socialist you might think best to end them, which might work. Whatever institutions we make will likely have their own issues. A liberal might think that under these metaphors we might be able to tame them, which is possible. Except not fighting them is something corporations want us to believe.

I personally think we can consider domestication. by understanding them through this lens. One way to domesticate them is simple. Kill them. I mean the bad ones. Let them fail, and fear not for their death. If they hurt people, and there is a lawsuit, the punishment should be significant, enough to kill the company and ruin all the investors. This way surviving companies will be afraid and police themselves. They will only behave themselves as long as there are consequences for not doing so. If you try to domesticate animals you will put down those who bite and are dangerous. Another solution is that stakeholders should be entitled to shares, people who work or rely on the product should have a voice and more importantly a vote. Although then we need to look into what institution is deciding who gets shares.

BTW, this can be interpreted as a liberal believing that “Just one more reform, trust me bro”. or worse an ancap thinking we just need the right corporations. My version of a reformed capitalism would be so different it would be a stretch to call it liberal.

TLDR: corporations are not people, they need to be treated as such, and be forced to serve public interest. Even less considering them as a group of people.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 21 hours ago

There's an entire field of organizational psychology that studies this phenomenon. I have a colleague who has her doctorate in it, super smart person. She gets so frustrated when she gets a call to help solve some org issue and nobody understands pretty much what you just described.

Changing reporting structures and titles only goes so far. At some point you are inside the system and have to observe its rules. Without changing some fundamental piece or pieces you're going to come to a limit of what you can do. Ever suggest changing incentive structures to match desired outcomes? She has, and won't be doing it again after being laughed off the job.

If you're a publicly traded company in a capitalist country I would guess 65% of your culture and behaviors are immovable. And, as of late, I also believe that those 65% are the worst behaviors for humanity.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 18 hours ago

you cannot even attempt to change the system without friction from said system. however, we shouldn't care at all if said system complains. those systems aren't our friend. and we need to use them for our benefit, not the other way round.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 23 hours ago

Interesting take!

I'm not sure how well recieved it will be here on Lemmy, but it's well reasoned and explained with clear references.

Even if others don't agree with you, you've certainly earned respect for so cleanly writing out how you're looking at this and why.

Personally, I think your answer aligns itself well with the classic solutions to these problems.

Machiavelli wrote extensively about what you're saying in "The Prince" and came to a similar solution that institutions and any position of power over them needs to be completely transparent and open to critique. He pushed for heavy regulation becuase it's the literal singular mechanism that pushes institutions towards benefiting the public instead of benefiting themselves.

The most interesting takeaway from reading The Prince in a modern context is how deregulation killed every system of governance we've tried going all the way back to ancient Rome.

Nero fiddled as Rome burned because Roman government was deregulated to the point an idiot could hold power over them.

USSR couldn't keep communism regulated, so those that were stealing and breaking the system used their illegally gained resources to deconstruct the communist regime in its entirety.

Now, in the US we're watching as both of these happen at the same time. A social system deregulated to the point several reality TV stars can hold the highest military and government positions while bailing out our Oligarchs so much they've evolved from "too big to fail" into "too big to stop."

Tansparency and regulation are a necessity in any functioning society to prevent the minority of horrible humans among us from becoming subjugators.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 18 hours ago

actually, it seems it was well received by people who read it.

was afraid no one will read an essay here.

"too big to fail" should be turn to "too big to keep alive"

[-] [email protected] 5 points 23 hours ago

These emergent institutional entities are themselves the gut biota of Moloch.

[-] [email protected] 29 points 1 day ago

We need more luigis

[-] [email protected] 38 points 1 day ago

Reminder that capitalism is a system where companies cannot afford to consistently do the right thing. Therefore Capitalism must be abolished entirely.

[-] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

My greatest wish is the fall of the dollar for exactly this reason. This is the result I want. I want capitalism to collapse. Worldwide. And it will sooner or later. But I'd prefer sooner. Capitalism cannot survive. Infinite growth + finite resources = inevitable collapse. Dependence on the US Dollar is how this all got as bad as it has. We were the snake oil salesman selling capitalism to the world. With extreme prejudice where deemed necessary.

I'm 100% sure I won't survive that crash. But if the human race is to survive. Capitalism has to end. Or at least be wrestled into submission. We can't flee to space. We can't farm the asteroid belt for resources. We're a couple years from AGI. Climate change is happening live. We see it every single day. As of right now we don't have a future. End of this century maybe. Maybe.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 21 hours ago

Sweet. Get Luigi on the phone.

[-] [email protected] 46 points 1 day ago

2 of the worst companies out there fighting, get the popcorn ready

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[-] [email protected] 55 points 1 day ago
[-] [email protected] 35 points 1 day ago

That's a thing you can sue for?

[-] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago

Yes, shareholders in the US have rights to sue when their investments don't return profits as promised.

It's pretty sickening.

This is one of the biggest drivers of corporate greed in the US.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago

Investments are supposed to be a gamble. Imagine losing at the casino and then suing the casino because you didn't get the advertised jackpot.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

That's the problem with our entire system!

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

I'm pretty anti capitalist and wish the whole system would fuck off but they're not suing because of the lack of performance of their investment, they're alleging that United didn't give necessary information to investors

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

This is unfortunately true, they'll likely win the case on that angle.

My point is that legislation shouldn't guarantee earnings from gambling under unforeseen circumstances. That's just gambling.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Seriously, how many times have I heard the argument that CEOs should be making "the big bucks" because they're taking on "the big risks"? Yet except for Brian Thompson, I can't think of any CEOs who've ever actually incurred risks from their "gambles." They always seem to make cuts to everyone and everything else before accepting a loss, or else jump ship with a golden parachute (and probably go on to fuck up a different company afterwards.) Of course, I can't deny the possibility that CEOs who fail don't make the news, and this is just survivorship bias (no pun intended.)

[-] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago

The CEOs aren't making any risks at all, it's the shareholders taking risks. The unfairness comes in when the government protects them from their own risk while leaving the poor out to rot.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

This isn't about a failed bet. It's about investors not being informed of the changes.

It's closer to having the odds and rules explained, then having the casino change both retroactively after they've taken your money.

[-] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago

You can sue for everything. If you win is another question.

[-] [email protected] 31 points 1 day ago
[-] [email protected] 28 points 1 day ago

So this article cites a CBS news article which says:

"In the proposed class action lawsuit filed Wednesday in the Southern District of New York, investor Roberto Faller alleges UnitedHealth "artificially inflated prices" when the company initially forecast earnings per share of $29.50 to $30 in December. UnitedHealth then reaffirmed that outlook in January, despite mounting a backlash following an October Senate report on its high rate of claim denials and, later, the December killing of its CEO.

Faller's complaint comes after UnitedHealth cut its 2025 forecast for adjusted profit per share to a lower range between $26 to $26.50.

Attorneys argued that the company's statements on performance expectations last year and earlier this year were "materially false and misleading" because UnitedHealth didn't tell shareholders "it would have to adjust its strategy, which resulted in heightened denials compared to industry competitors.""

So I guess it's okay to just completely lie now, huh?

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[-] [email protected] 358 points 2 days ago

The Punchline That Isn’t Funny

BlackRock will probably win this lawsuit. Or settle for millions. Either way, they’ll extract value from a system designed to extract life from patients.

They’re not just suing UnitedHealth — they’re suing the very idea that health insurance should provide health insurance. They’re fighting for their constitutional right to profit when people die and lose money when people live.

Welcome to American healthcare, where caring too much is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Dear Sweet Mother of God, this article does not hold back on the biting truth.

It's a worthwhile read with only one small mistake contained within:

Luigi Mangione didn’t just kill a CEO

There is no reliable evidence to suggest Mr. Mangione killed anyone. And I, for one, remain convinced he did not do that deed.

[-] [email protected] 144 points 2 days ago

Hope Mangione is found innocent and he suits the shit out off all the media companies that declared guilty without any proof.

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[-] [email protected] 100 points 2 days ago

There is no reliable evidence to suggest Mr. Mangione killed anyone.

I'm so sick of everyone making me repeat myself with this:

Luigi was.

With me.

The morning.

Of the murder.

He physically could not have committed the crime from another location. We were setting up for our friend's dad's birthday party and he was busy getting the balloons ready.

Not guilty.

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[-] [email protected] 84 points 2 days ago

Did you know? Blackrock is the corporation that all evil corporations in fiction are based off of.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago

Technically, according to the source of the article above, BlackRock is actually suing UnitedHealth over stock price manipulation and that it's earnings forecast did not disclose that they would be denying patients at a higher rate than competitors in order to meet its goal.

In other words, they're suing UHC for denying too many people.

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[-] [email protected] 137 points 2 days ago

Hello my American friends, as an observer from outside, it looks to me like you all need some of that "democracy" you've been bombing across the world for decades.

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[-] [email protected] 106 points 2 days ago

You know what would be really funny?

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[-] [email protected] 60 points 2 days ago

Sounds like the black rock ceo needs a visit by the Mario bros.

[-] [email protected] 119 points 2 days ago

Sounds like they're admitting the CEO murder brought about a good change. We should do it more often 🙂

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[-] [email protected] 78 points 2 days ago

Will nobody rid me of this meddlesome BlackRock CEO?

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this post was submitted on 26 May 2025
1044 points (98.9% liked)

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