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submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

The American media loves saying that, but does it really have a right to exist? Does an apartheid colonizing regime have the right to exist in someone else’s land?

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[-] [email protected] 39 points 2 years ago

It really doesn't. Neither does Amerika for that matter; but the settlers would never accept that as an answer.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago

So what's your solution to this issue?

[-] [email protected] 32 points 2 years ago

Decolonization and mandatory re-education of settler-descent persons is really the only sane answer. I could be saying a half-dozen more overtly ghoulish things; but the first step of least harm is a ceding of power and privilege from the colonizers to the colonized, and education as to the fuckery that this country-- and as a result, Israel-- perpetuated to come into existence, and why what they did is an aberration.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago

Who is included in the colonized and colonist categories in this sense? All "white" people? All white passing people no matter background? Recent (last 50 years) migrants of all races?

What would the differentiation be, and what is the line in the sand? This doesn't seem to be nearly as cut and dry as "Isreali vs Palestinian".

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[-] [email protected] 17 points 2 years ago

Decolonial Marxism as layed out by Walter Rodney

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago

Guess I'll get back to you after at least skimming that

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[-] [email protected] 38 points 2 years ago
[-] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago

Israel has the right to exist...in the dustbin of history

[-] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

In the abstract sense in that current "Israeli" borders are maintained when it becomes a Palestinian state? Yes. It should not be reduced or divvied up among its neighbors.

As it currently stands as a geopolitical entity that we consider Israel? No. What is considered currently as Israel should be a Palestinian state.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago

Maybe not the Golan heights

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Sure, but that's not really Israeli borders. No one recognizes it as theirs. It is still "Syrian" territory.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

That makes sense!

[-] [email protected] 18 points 2 years ago

No state has a right to exist, frankly, but Israel is extra not having the right to exist

[-] [email protected] 18 points 2 years ago

There’s something that irks me about this question but I can’t quite figure out what it is until now.

States don’t have rights; people have rights. The state only exists to promote the interests of a certain class. And in this case, the Israeli state promotes the interests of the Israeli bourgeois, and enforces its will over not only the Israeli people but also the Palestinian people due to a weakened Palestinian state.

By framing the state as having rights, you’re suggesting the fate of the Israeli state as being equivalent to the Israeli people, which is a false equivalency.

[-] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago
[-] [email protected] 14 points 2 years ago

以色列是人类在20世纪犯下的最大的错误,但是我们已经失去了妥善解决这个问题的机会 Israel is the biggest mistake made by mankind in the 20th century, but we have lost the opportunity to properly solve this mistake.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

"يتنوع الخطاب عن ومع فلسطين في “الشمال العالمي”؛ بين المؤسسات الأكاديمية والإعلامية والحركات الاجتماعية والسياسية التي ترى في فلسطين إمّا سؤالاً أخلاقياً أساسياً، أو روابط وثيمات مشتركة، أو انتهزت فرصةً تاريخية لتحاول نزع صفة “الاستعمار” عن عملها – بمعنى آخر، تقول هذه الكيانات وبشكل غير مباشر: “قد نعمل مستفيدين من ثروات استُحصلت من عمليات استعمارية مختلفة، ولكننا نحاول، وجزء من محاولتنا هذه، أن نكون مع فلسطين”. يتحوّل فعل التضامن بدوره إلى محاكاة – أو محاكاة للمحاكاة، لا تمت إلى الواقع بصلة، وتنفصل عنه، لا بنيّة تحريفه بالضرورة، ولكن بهدف التهرّب من مواجهته أصلًا. يتماشى هذا الفعل جنبًا إلى جنب مع الفرضية التي مفادها أن الفلسطيني بالأصل ضحية، وأحيانًا يتحوّل إلى مقاوم.

وهذا الواقع، ليس بالضروري ناتجٌ عن أي مخطط مسبق، أو نية أذيّة، بقدر ما هي خلاصة انفجار تناقضات مختلفة لم يُتعامل معها. والواقع أن هذه الأسئلة حول ماهية التضامن “الغربي” مع فلسطين لم تتجاوز في السابق حدود الاستفسار عن النوايا. وبعكس المتوقّع، أُسست ديناميكية التضامن على أساس تلقّي المتضامن معه وقبوله كل أشكال المحبّة هذه، حتى ولو كانت مؤذية له في الأساس."

-إسلام الخطيب

English:

"The discourse about and with Palestine in the 'global North' varies; between academic institutions, media outlets, social movements, to political entities that view Palestine either as a fundamental moral question, through shared common realities and themes, or in seizing a historical opportunity to attempt to remove the label of 'colonization' from their actions and work. In other words, these entities indirectly state: 'We may benefit from the wealth acquired through various colonial operations, but as part of our attempt, we stand with Palestine.' Solidarity, consequently, becomes a simulacrum -- or a simulation of simulation, detached from reality -- not necessarily with the intention of distorting it but to avoid confronting its essence. This action goes hand in hand with the assumption that Palestinians are inherently (primarily) victims and only sometimes transform into resistors.

This reality is not necessarily the result of any preconceived plan or ill intent, but rather the culmination of various unaddressed contradictions. The fact is that these questions about the nature of 'Western' solidarity with Palestine have never gone beyond the boundaries of inquiring about intentions. Contrary to intentions, the dynamics of solidarity are built on the basis of the recipient embracing all forms of this love, even if it is actually harmful to (them) in the first place."

-Islam Al-Khatib

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago

Could you please add the translation at the bottom?

[-] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago
[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 years ago

bugs-no

Hope that clears it up for everyone.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago

The "state of Israel" has no right in Palestine, never had any right in Palestine and never can have any right in Palestine. Apartheid and imperialism are inherently illegitimate systems and the Zionist entity occupying Palestine has as little right to exist as did Rhodesia, Belgian Congo or apartheid South Africa.

Not only does the "state of Israel" have no right to exist, it's continued existence is an affront to the right of everyone living in Palestine, regardless of religion or ethnicity, to live in peace and dignity.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago

If the Brits wanted Israel to exist so bad they should've offered up England.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 years ago

do nation-states have rights? are rights even a coherent thing?

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago

By that logic does America deserve to exist?

[-] [email protected] 20 points 2 years ago
[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago

Shoulda just busted a nug off Austria.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

Europe and west in general has made it very clear it will absolutely not tolerate Jews on the subcontinent. Trying to carve up a little Ashkenaz in Austria would just see another slaughter. In fact that is one of the reasons I suspect the Israel project was supported back then - just ship them off all to somewhere out of sight and out of mind.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

That shouldn't be the Palestinians' problem. If anything, the mingled forces of FIVE-EYES, NATO, and what have you should have sacked the fuck up and carved off some of their own; and as they didn't, I consider every single nation that fought for the Allies and still exists culpable for this aberration of colonialism. Instead, global crackery condemned Palestine to die so they wouldn't have to bother; and you wonder why I don't give the first fuck about white tears?

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[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago

Does Rhodesia?

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago
[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

The point is... It doesn't matter now..most of the islamic world except Iran has forgotten their brethren and most of big powers are doing lip service for palestine sympathy. I mean we can bark how much we can.. It doesn't matter to Israel itself. Israel has absorbed most of palestine state and in few years they will absorb more and will erase the historical memory of any Palestinian state. Most Palestinians will flee to Jordon or Lebanon or will become a 2nd class citizen. The hard truth is how much we say occasionally that we are fighting for Palestine the state got finished when Egypt did it's accords with US and most of Islamic world along with USSR failed to intervene when Israel broke the UN partition plan. The one thing we can try is to change the internal politics of Israel to become a secular country instead of being this apartheid entity but that too requires many adjustments in the world political movement. Right wing jewish lobby is strong in the US and in Europe and they tow the genocidal apartheid line of Israel. It's sad to see a state sponsored genocide and silence of the world media but sadly it was all over when USSR collapsed. It will take hundreds of years to undo the harm done.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 2 years ago

Arguing that there's not much to be done is not that useful. There's always something to be done. The South African apartheid lasted for decades, but it was eventually over too.

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this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2023
32 points (84.8% liked)

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