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[–] 185 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (15 children)

Signal isn't federated ^[1][2][3.1]^; it's decentralized ^[1][2][3.2]^. Though, for all practical purposes, I would generally argue that it's centralized.

References

  1. Signal-Server. signalapp. Github. Published: 2025-01-31T15:34:14.000Z. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:24Z. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server.
    • This is the source code for the server that Signal uses.
  2. "Signal (software)". Wikipedia. Published: 2025-01-06T09:34Z. Accessed: 2025-02-1T09:30Z. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software).
    • ¶"Architecture". ¶"Servers".

      Signal relies on centralized servers that are maintained by Signal Messenger. In addition to routing Signal's messages, the servers also facilitate the discovery of contacts who are also registered Signal users and the automatic exchange of users' public keys. […]

  3. "Reflections: The ecosystem is moving". moxie0. Signal Blog. Published: 2016-05-10. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:40Z. https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/.
    1. ¶5. to ¶"Stuck in time". ¶3-6

      One of the controversial things we did with Signal early on was to build it as an unfederated service. Nothing about any of the protocols we’ve developed requires centralization; it’s entirely possible to build a federated Signal Protocol-based messenger, but I no longer believe that it is possible to build a competitive federated messenger at all. […] [interoperable protocols] [have] taken us pretty far, but it’s undeniable that once you federate your protocol, it becomes very difficult to make changes. And right now, at the application level, things that stand still don’t fare very well in a world where the ecosystem is moving. […] Early on, I thought we’d federate Signal once its velocity had subsided. Now I realize that things will probably never slow down, and if anything the velocity of the entire landscape seems to be steadily increasing.

    2. ¶"Stuck in time". "Federation and control". ¶6.

      An open source infrastructure for a centralized network now provides almost the same level of control as federated protocols, without giving up the ability to adapt. If a centralized provider with an open source infrastructure ever makes horrible changes, those that disagree have the software they need to run their own alternative instead. It may not be as beautiful as federation, but at this point it seems that it will have to do.

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  • [–] 97 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    Yeah. I love Signal but it doesn't belong in that list. Dansup (creator of loops and pixelfed) is apparently working on "Sup" that will be a decentralized alternative to whatsapp.

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  • [–] 70 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    To me this person sounds like they have too many big projects at once. I wish them success tho

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  • [–] 36 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Yeah.. I'm bit afraid of "kbin Ernest Effect" (not sure what a proper term is) where personal issues pile up and the sole head developer just disappears.

    Haven't followed dansup much but from what I understand he is much more open to pull requests and listening to the community, but time will tell. Right now I appreciate and love his effort, giving, and the impact on fediverse he is brining.

    The kickstarter was a good idea.

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    [–] 121 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (8 children)

    For the avid readers out there, bookwyrm is a fantastic alternative to goodreads.

    https://joinbookwyrm.com/

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    [–] 104 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Unfortunately, the switch from YouTube to PeerTube has not worked for me so far. I can't find a decent instance (not full of right-wing/conspiracy content) with interesting stuff that also allows me to make an account.

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    [–] 103 points 2 years ago (21 children)

    Signal is not Fediverse! Element/Matrix is!

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  • [–] 44 points 2 years ago (14 children)

    Element/matrix aren't part of the fediverse, either. It doesn't speak AP.

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  • [–] 36 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Matrix is federated, Signal is not.

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    [–] 71 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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    [+] 62 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)
  • [–] 27 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Hear me out.

    Creators should be hosting peer tubes. And they should host exclusively their own content. Fans of their can subscribe to whatever systems they want to pay and support.

    For creators, it's a backup for when YouTube the project inevitably fails. For fans as well. But it's also a backup of their content.

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    [–] 60 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    How is signal considered part of the fediverse?

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    [–] 50 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    Unpopular Opinion Lemmy and PeerTube logo look ugly.

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    [–] 47 points 2 years ago (14 children)

    Signal is centralized, loops is closed source and not accepting new users.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    Loops will be open sourced later they say.

    Is Loops open source? It will be! We plan on open sourcing the platform after it reaches a stable and easy to maintain state.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    That really is not a satisfying answer. It is incredibly nebulous and even if it did have a nice definition I guarantee most software developers will tell you a lot of software rarely reaches that state.

    I can see why they might want to avoid 1000 GitHub issues bike shedding things but they could open source the code and just not have open contribution

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    [–] 47 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    What does signal have to do with anything?

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    [–] 40 points 2 years ago (13 children)

    I support the cause in general but: Signal is not federated at all. It may seem like a decent alternative to WhatsApp but is it really? It still falls under the same US jurisdiction. Let's say the US gov starts agressively prosecuting dissidents and certain minorities (they already do): can and should we still use signal in this case? I don't think so. Sadly i can't name a much better alternative. Maybe matrix. But it has other issues.

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  • [–] 30 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Signal is open source. They absolutely do always comply with US warrants. They have never provided any information to US law enforcement, because they can't access it. They literally have no way of accessing the information contained inside the texts. The most they could provide is metadata, but they currently aren't collecting that. I also think if they started, it would not work well for their user base. You can see all their requests for information, and the responses they gave, here: https://signal.org/bigbrother/

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    [–] 38 points 2 years ago

    A federated social fitness app(like Strava) would be cool

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  • [–] 36 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    instead of switching ive mostly just been ditching entirely. I need less time interacting with internet people.

    literally the only thing on this list im still using is facebook messenger, for my work colleagues. and youtube. everything else ive migrated (reddit-lemmy), or abandoned and torched

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    [–] 36 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Hi, I think too many people are focusing too much on the type of software included in this chart. I don't think the goal of the person that created the chart was to create the ultimate guide to move to the Fediverse or FOSS apps with all the options available for them. I believe it prioritizes simplicity, and it's clearly directed towards people unaware that these alternatives exist.

    Most people I know don't even know what the Fediverse is, and I think this initiative is for them.

    I know that debating which FOSS/Fedi apps are the best is a big matter of concern for people that are already aware of the problems some platform have. But focusing too much on this debate not only creates more division among supporters of FOSS/Fedi, but it is also drawing attention from the main point: Bringing more people to the Fediverse.

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    [–] 31 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    Loops.video isn't accepting new users atm. Even if it was, I got in on early signup and I have next to zero functionality out of it rn. Just informing the curious masses

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    [–] 28 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I find youtube to be the hardest one on this list

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    [–] 24 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I was already on Mastodon by just having a Vivaldi (the chromium browser) account, and it's just lovely I've spent most of the day setting up lemmy, even though I joined feddit.dk 2 years ago, it's only just now I'm taking it seriously.
    And, while not related to the fediverse per se, I switched to linux a year ago.
    The only service that's hard to drop/switch away from is Youtube imo.

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    [–] 22 points 2 years ago (12 children)

    I keep seeing this type stuff but neither peertube or friendica are genuine replacements at this point, mastodon is weaksauce compared to akkoma or a misskey fork, and loops is alpha software. also yes signal is centralized but it just works and has contact discovery so it owns matrix and xmpp when compared to whatsapp. basically none of this stuff is truly ready

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    [–] 19 points 2 years ago (34 children)

    Switching from WhatsApp to any other messaging service isn't a realistic option for quite many places. I'd be more than willing to switch but of all the people in my contacts (including my entire customer base) there's like 3 people using Signal but every single one of them has WhatsApp. Even the 60+ year olds.

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    [–] 18 points 2 years ago (15 children)

    I like this. I hope it starts conversations. Does anyone know if there are good alternatives to Discord?

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    [–] 17 points 2 years ago*

    Why didn't I hear about this until the day of?

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    FB Marketplace --> Flohmarkt is missing!

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