this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2024
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A Boring Dystopia

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No state has a longer, more profit-driven history of contracting prisoners out to private companies than Alabama. With a sprawling labor system that dates back more than 150 years — including the brutal convict leasing era that replaced slavery — it has constructed a template for the commercialization of mass incarceration.

Most jobs are inside facilities, where the state’s inmates — who are disproportionately Black — can be sentenced to hard labor and forced to work for free doing everything from mopping floors to laundry. But more than 10,000 inmates have logged a combined 17 million work hours outside Alabama’s prison walls since 2018, for entities like city and county governments and businesses that range from major car-part manufacturers and meat-processing plants to distribution centers for major retailers like Walmart, the AP determined.

https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-alabama-3b2c7e414c681ba545dc1d0ad30bfaf5

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 14 minutes ago

You can hate other empires as well, and I do, but the US has the largest prison population on Earth, and that isn't even per capita. 2 million prisoners. We should all be ashamed of that.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 hours ago

And you know that small businesses and independent establishments aren't seeing one minute of that free prison labor under their roof. It's all going to large companies with connections to government.

I'm not arguing that either should benefit from effective slave labor, but the fact that the biggest players get this insane advantage just rubs extra salt in the wound.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Last year I have been learning we are doing everything from the slavery era. It only got renamed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 38 minutes ago

It had a PR campaign, but it's still here. That 13th amendment needs to be amended anew

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Wait, could I move to the US and rent a sexy inmate for my mansion? To parade in front of my geek friends? And play video games with?

(I mean I'd cruelly punish him of course, being in the US, like I wouldn't put any toppings on his ice cream, or something unusually painful, or whatever the law says you have to do).

[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Oh this is delicious. Keep in mind they hate abortion and hate sexual education. It's not a conspiracy any more. They want the poor to be uneducated and reproductive to have a jailed bottom slave minority.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 38 minutes ago
[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 hours ago (4 children)

I put it to you that this might, with a few tweaks, actually be a step in the right direction. I'd rather be at work than in prison. Community service is a thing. This is clearly coming at it backwards on pretty much every count, but there's a kernel of a good idea in there.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 hours ago

To back you up: In Norway (and quite a few other countries I assume), job training and/or education are typically included in a prison sentence as a way to re-integrate inmates into society. Norway also happens to have one of the lowest repeat offender rates in the world.

Of course, this has to be voluntary on the inmates part, and they have to be paid some compensation for the work they do. I believe a part of the system involves inmates being placed for job training in some company that's willing to employ them, but the government pays their salary, because the employing company is expected to spend resources training them. This also incentivises the company to hire them once they finish doing time, as they've now been trained in the job.

Inmates that are regarded as too dangerous to be outside the prison can typically get jobs within the walls. In Norways highest-security prison, there's a Gardening businesses, where inmates grow all kinds of flowers, and inmates run a shop where people from outside can buy them. It's regarded as a huge success in helping the inmates prepare for an ordinary job.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 hours ago

Here, they let you learn for a job instead in prison. Seems the better option, imo.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 hours ago

Fair enough, but for this to be just it must be voluntary for the prisoner and it must not be used as a motivation to deny parole.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Do you trust not being put in jail for anything they come up with?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago

Goodness no, I'd more or less expect it. The whole model is upside down.

[–] [email protected] 78 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)

Yep. And it’s perfectly legal, because the US never banned slavery.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

I think we’re one of the only countries in the world who still has legal slavery. Pretty awful.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 hours ago

There are a few sharia lands and a bunch of not-yet-sharia lands with like half the population dreaming of it.

Taken together - a huge chunk of the globe.

There are also a few countries where the Western concept of slavery wouldn't work, but with pretty feudal-despotic cultural legacy, like, ahem, Japan and Thailand and what not, which may have something similar to slavery again in future.

So I wouldn't say USA is that different.

And in Russia there are whole small towns functional because of prison colony facilities there where prisoners work.

Still, prisoners working for private companies with prisons collecting their wages, - seems kinda uncomfortably close. Because, yes, if they are safe enough to be let out into society, they are safe enough to not be prisoners.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Anytime you see one of those “silly laws” - stuff about not being able to ride a horse on Sunday or whatever - that’s why. “Vagrancy” laws were basically put in place to funnel black men into legal enslavement.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

Why do they call it "land of the free" again?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Cognitive dissonance. Discrimination is illegal, so obviously anyone who experiences it is crazy or lying. Clearly, they should have just followed the law against selling loose cigarettes if they didn’t want to die.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago

Sounds like gaslighting.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago

“They Thought They Were Free: [German society 1933-1945]”

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 hours ago

For the same reason narcissists like to say they're the best.

[–] [email protected] 141 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (6 children)

Yes, convict leasing was designed to be a direct replacement for slavery. It was used that way right after slavery ended when you could arrest a black person for anything you could think of. No job? Arrested, leased. No home? Arrested, leased. Etc....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_leasing

[–] [email protected] 68 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

So slavey never ended! Cool cool. Totally not a corporate dictatorship masquerading as a democracy...

[–] [email protected] 36 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (2 children)

the laws never pretended it ended. the thirteenth ammendment very plainly allows it:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

emphasis mine. it never said you can't have slavery any more, it just said if you're gonna do slavery you have to convict someone first.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Not saying it's not true, but it was pretty much in the spirit of English legal tradition. This probably even wasn't a huge point of contention when written.

If that part is changed, no kind of convict labor (or "public work" or whatever it's called in Europe and elsewhere) will be legal. All the convicts will do is rot in the same building for many months and years.

Without some deep prison reform you'll have an increase in suicides and mental health cases. I've spent only 10 days in a mental hospital (from medical commission for conscript service, I live in Russia), and every opportunity to go do something unusual was happiness there. Even to help nurses with carrying somewhere some vaguely piss-smelling bed sheets in bags. It was nothing like prison. It was nothing like a usual mental hospital even. Still boredom gets you.

Like I said, without a deep reform. With said deep reform - convict labor being allowed only with competitive wages somehow limited in use (say, only available upon release?), so that these wouldn't go to overpriced prison goods or something like that to indirectly reproduce slave labor, - then yes.

Actually, about prison goods - I think prisons can afford to provide inmates with a free delivery service, while what they buy they pay for themselves. Prisons in general shouldn't sell anything to inmates or buy anything from them, the power imbalance is unacceptable. Or maybe it won't be a free delivery service, just prison authorities will be obligated to accept those deliveries.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

That’s how propagandized Americans are. lmfao They act as if this is some shadowy hidden part of our culture

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 hours ago

It's not like you'd expect people to be closely acquainted with an obscure legal document like the constitution.

Oh, wait...

[–] [email protected] 9 points 13 hours ago

Dylan roof got Burger King and Luigi is facing terrorism charges and the death penalty.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Yup, it never ended, it just rebranded
I believe it's called neoslavery, I think the last privately (legally) owned slave was released in 1946 if i recall correctly, now the only legal slavery is prisons

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[–] [email protected] 168 points 20 hours ago (5 children)

It's legal per the 13th Amendment.

Doesn't make it right, and it says a lot about how little both parties value human rights that it's allowed to stand.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 minutes ago

"both" parties...sure

[–] [email protected] 67 points 20 hours ago

Oh, that's nothing. Ever wonder who tough on crime legislation actually benefits, and who's lobbying for it?

[–] [email protected] 49 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

Government: "WELL ACHSHUALLY, They aren't slaves because they consented...

~under~ ~the~ ~threat~ ~of~ ~23~ ~hour~ ~solitary~ ~confinement~ ~with~ ~zero~ ~amenities~ ~and~ ~nothing~ ~to~ ~do~ ~and~ ~shitty~ ~food~ ~and~ ~absolute~ ~boredom~~,~ ~and~ ~practically~ ~psychological~ ~torture"~

[–] [email protected] 10 points 14 hours ago

Oh no that's most states. Alabama is straight up sentencing them to labor. There's not even a fiction of them volunteering.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 17 hours ago

America calling slavery slavery challenge impossible!

[–] bdonvr 75 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

"dates back more than 150 years"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Interesting timeframe

[–] [email protected] 36 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (7 children)

Meet the new boss. 🎵

Same as the old boss🎵

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

This is how states fight wildfires

[–] [email protected] 11 points 13 hours ago

And then they don't qualify to work as firefighters after they are released.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 18 hours ago

If you don't want slavery, then make it illegal. Maybe even make a constitutional amendment.

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