Collected statements of mods in favor of this change:

“dunk culture” can be fun but it’s rarely constructive, gives off white cishet man vibes, and has the potential to shift closer to the reactionary reddit “snark”.

It promotes misanthropy and, depending on the post can serve as an outlet for “acceptable” bigotry by copy/pasting the most heinous takes without pushing back and sometimes without a CW.

We have all seen those toxic and reactionary opinions 200 million times, ultimately it is just getting really mad at other powerless people.

Counterpropaganda is where you can post Mike83829293’s takes. Posts require clear effort being made in countering the falsehoods of the original post, or furthering the discussion. What this effort looks like will be a dialogue between the users and mods.

Counterpropaganda posts cutting apart shitty Op-eds, MIC insider articles, journalistic stories, etc. are celebrated and encouraged, and will be separated from the shitpostier/chattier nature of the gossip community.

Gossip is the new place to post about people with power. The person being dunked on must be a public figure, and be paid to be a public figure.

The name gossip is because it makes the content seem deeply unserious, like the posts about Elon Musk, celebrities, journalists, all of the streamer infighting, YouTuber arguments, podcast guys, etc. Locking the dunk/dredge tanks will help with toning down the irony poisoning on this site esp from white people. it's such a white internet communist turn-off for me and it permeates this site. A lot of people have mentioned that there's a definite air of misogyny around the way the site is currently doing dunks, and calling it like it is, gossip, should prove to be not only a method of finding out problematic users, but also a more entertaining way of letting people talk about other public figures besides just Elon Musk and US political candidates

We absolutely need to be more vigilant about toxic behavior in these spaces, there's a non-zero amount of ironic bigotry that has slipped through the cracks to the point where I've independently had multiple different people mention it as a concern.

Dunk culture is along the lines of doing mutual self harm, like a smoking social club. You all go in and smoke together and encourage one another to keep smoking, and you feel a sense of community and a sense that what you're doing is cool and fun, like putting a poster over the hole in the wall instead of fixing the wall.

We want us to continue to be a fun shitposting forum. But there are tons of other kinds of shitposting. Remember "bad guy bit accounts" when we had like civility and neera_tanden and all those other bit accounts where they just posted and argued while larping as annoying liberals or chuds? We grew out of that, and I think the site is better for it. We still have bit accounts, but there's not really that kind of arguing in the comments anymore. We can grow out of this one too, and I think the site will also be better for it. We don't have to have a site culture defined by our flailing opposition to mainstream pop culture and politics, uselessly posted where nobody else will see it. This change has the potential to make HB a lot less toxic improve the quality of posts, we are assessing these changes over the next two weeks and will open the floor for discussion at that time.

Collected statements of mods against this change:

"dunk' culture" isn't inherently unhealthy for the site.
there are aspects of it that need to be cracked down on, and I don’t discount that some reformations to it will probably need to be made, but even after sitting on it for a bit I still think it's not the best idea to strangle the aspect out of the site.

It is not an inherently progressive move for the site culture to totally exclude it. I think a third space for it should exist, with the primary purpose of a space for 'dunk' content is mutual catharsis.

As a leftist, online and a bit offline, is a bit of a maddening experience. A 'dunk' space, even one filled with low hanging fruit, allows me to vent my anger and negative emotions off in a way that gives a shared space for it. It serves these little capsules of exasperation that keeps me from sort of overdosing on those emotion

Turns out hexbear was an op all along.

the likes of which are rarely ever seen!

Hey, do you think you'll ever get to post something that doesn't become a strugglesession? Not trying to shit on you, just thinking this must be a very tiring volunteer gig. Hope you've got good people around.

Edit: removed my previous comment, I no longer agree with it.

I do think gossip is a bad comm name as others have pointed out already. Additionally, I do think this is an overly serious turn. While I personally would be fine with it, I would be happiest to see it put to a vote.

I think "gossip" (terrible name) should be a synthesis of dunk and dredge with low effort allowed, and counter can be an "effort dunk" comm. That is what I personally would want, a fun comm and a more effort focused debunk comm, that way we keep both camps as happy as I think we can.

My full stance however is that, more than what I prefer, it should be put to a vote, with both dunk and gossip corrected to better names regardless of outcome.